Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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http://easywatercar.com/2books.htm?hop=cyprusmete

Just had a friend email this site to me. Any experts out there care to comment on if it is for real? And if it is, what could it mean to F1, even as soon as the 2008 season?

Chris

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
Location: Bicester

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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This has to be a joke.

Newton defines energy cannot be created or destroyed, however it can change its form. i.e. heat energy can be changed to rotational energy, but there will be losses (which is not actually energy being lost, but part of it changed to an undesirable form), minimising these losses is what makes some designs more efficient. Thats the basics.

The system this site describes would require alot of energy to produce the "HHO" (which surely is H2O?) making the system immediately unefficient.

A quick glance through suggests they're using hydrolisis to create hydrogen but that will only make a small amount of hydrogen and will very quickly drain even a car battery. The hydrogen is then 'sucked' via a vacum line to the engine air intake. To the best of my limit knowledge this would work and could feasably produce more energy than petrol however the problem would come in generating the electricity. http://easywatercar.com/2books.htm?hop=cyprusmete#info

The best way to explain the power produced, I'm experimenting using similar techniques to make hydrogen balloons, they drain batteries lightning fast using the described method (you could easily get through 2 AAs in an hour) so I'm going for aluminium submerged in drain cleaner in a wine bottle (probably less efficient but cheaper). Here's a quick demo of some careless American kids: http://youtube.com/watch?v=UUDy9heD6h8 as you can see one of them is almost holding the balloon and it barely hurts him. Consider how much effort it took to produce that little hydrogen and thats barely worth 4 cylinders, you can see its not a practical solution.

I know what I mean but putting it to type is difficult, basically this guy is charging $100 for a product he probably knows full well is utter crap, he repeatedly mentions supressed secrets etc but I know of all the techniques he states, how secret can they be. I bet he makes a bit out of it playing on people ignorance though.

You can't run a car on just water unfortunetly, end of.
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

Giblet
Giblet
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Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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It says it uses a free energy machine, and at this point in the time/space continuum, humanity has yet to produce a machine that produces energy for free.

Has to be a hoax for this reason. Give him some money and find out.
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

joselu43
joselu43
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Joined: 13 May 2006, 17:10

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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100% hoax. Whatever energy you get back from burning the generated free hydrogen must be inputted (plus losses)to generate it in the first place. There are no free lunches in nature I'm afraid.
JL

Conceptual
Conceptual
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Joined: 15 Nov 2007, 03:33

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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I remember when I was in High School (1996) I read an atricle in Popular Mechanics about a man that had invented an engine that "burned" water. Now I don't recall exactly how it worked, but I do recall that there was mention of a catalyst (Lye?) that was a consumable part of his system.

I was very skeptical when this was sent to me, that is why I brought it to the experts. And no, I wont be giving this man any money... Now that we own 2 TDI's with 45+mpg and have a gas station that sells Bio-Diesel for $1.48/gallon, I think that we are pretty set until the Hydristor retrofit kits come out... :-P

Chris

Carlos
Carlos
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Joined: 02 Sep 2006, 19:43
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Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Yeah, I'd have to agree, it's whack-job science for whack-jobs, this is right up there with the gas pill, the pill that turns water into gasoline. There's people that believe stuff like this. Then again some people still believe in perpetual motion and Cold Fusion =D>

How To Spot A Psychopath http://dansdata.blogsome.com/
http://dansdata.blogsome.com/2008/01/18 ... mr-fusion/




Theres a bunch of conspiracy theorists that have been driving Wikipedia nuts about the obvious fact that the easywatercar system works, Wikipedia had to basically tell them to get a life and locked down the article. Hard to believe but true. #-o

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Tom
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Joined: 13 Jan 2006, 00:24
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Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Well after ridiculing that theory here's a probably stupid question which you'll all pick holes in straight away no doubt.

Suppose hydrogen does contain up to 3 times more energy than petrol or whatever the claim was, could hydrogen be injected into the cylinders along with petrol in a fashion similar to N2O so that it probides a power increase in a short burst? obviously ignoring for a few moments the inherent danger of carrying around enough hydrogen substantial enough to use in this manner?

If it does work, how long (roughly) would a 2l plastic bottle be able to last if it offered a 10% power increase?
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Tom wrote:Suppose hydrogen does contain up to 3 times more energy than petrol or whatever the claim was, could hydrogen be injected into the cylinders along with petrol
For sure, but not in F1. The only fuel you can use is strictly controlled by the rules and injecting gases etc into the fuel is certainly not allowed.

R

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Rob W
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Joined: 18 Aug 2006, 03:28

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Tom wrote:This has to be a joke.
Yes. And a pretty lame one at that.

R

Giblet
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Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Water however, can be burnt.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h6vSxR6UKFM
Before I do anything I ask myself “Would an idiot do that?” And if the answer is yes, I do not do that thing. - Dwight Schrute

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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There has been

much confusion about "burning (salt)water" processes, not least because apparently there's some sort of an inverse relationship between becoming a TV reporter and remembering simple high school physics/chemistry lessons. I wonder about the scientists featured in these pieces somewhat. I can imagine at least some of them being at least a little miffed at how the processes in question have been presented after editing and their best efforts to be clear about the principles involved.

It has to be said though, that Kanzius just might have come up with an applicable process (i.e. something like "high-energy electromagnetic field Na+ Cl- polarity arranged weakened hydrogen bond H2O electrolysis") that has potential for refinement and further applications, whereas the vast majority of "HHO free energy" propositions have (in my, and many others', best judgement) lacked any and all scientific merit. And there are many of those schemes around. I'm loath to guess when this "free energy from burning water" phenomenon is down to the misunderstandings of the schemes' creators and when it represents some sort of an investor gullability litmus test.

But coming back to the "burning salt water", try this explanation on for size if you're still baffled. This is just in case and as an example of a pretty good effort of dispelling the myths, not an expression of mistrust in F1T's collective abilities to make sense of things. Far from comprehensive in every regard, but covers the necessary basics of it all pretty well. If radio waves electrolysed salt water the World over just like that, we'd live in a pretty infernal place ... in fact, our bodies wouldn't be very safe entities to reside in.

Some time ago on another messageboard far far away we also encountered people who inundated us with a multitude of "free energy" link backed claims of water as fuel. I took the trouble of actually doing calculations on relevant technologies and reactions rather meticulously, finding out efficiences (as they were at that point of time) etc. and presented the results in detail, contradicting the wildly optimistic to ridiculously unrealistic "free energy claims" quite sharply.

Nevertheless I probably still failed to convince the ardent proponents of water spontaneously "seizing subatomic energy" from its surroundings, or just suddenly lighting up on the realisation of it suddenly being "combustible", or something equally cockamamy wishful thinking akin to that. And while I don't discount anything, I still tend to base my opinions on empirical evidence, or valid proof of that.

Water is a truly amazing compound, well worth investigation, study and sheer joyous amazement. The web is full of reputable sources on water, electrolysis, fuel cells and hydrogen ICEs (I vaguely remember Sandia Nat'l Labs working on such engines and presenting some good data on their experiments).

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Ciro Pabón
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Joined: 11 May 2005, 00:31

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Well, we discussed this some time ago, as you probably remember (Saltwater as fuel), but yet I cannot find by googling around neither efficiency figures nor an analysis of the flame to find out what's burning. It's still intriguing.
Ciro

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checkered
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Joined: 02 Mar 2007, 14:32

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Ciro Pabón wrote:Well, we discussed this some time ago, as you probably remember (Saltwater as fuel), but yet I cannot find by googling around neither efficiency figures nor an analysis of the flame to find out what's burning. It's still intriguing.
Sorry, Ciro, I really

didn't remember. Speaking of empirical proof, it just goes to show that "I can't hold my (salt)water" ... Nice of you to point out your previous observations, though, and jogging my memory. There was a lab of some sort mentioned in one of the clips, perhaps it has posted figures or something? Even though I don't believe for one second that this is some sort of "free" energy, I'm still intrigued as to the electromagnetic properties, resonances, compound and ion interaction, etc. aspects of it all.

Also, the flame was hardly colourless in some of the clips which doesn't bode well with hydrogen, but was it the one with a strip of some sort stuck in the tube? There's of course room for a hoax here also, but I'd rather call it by trying to independently reproduce the experiments in controlled circumstances. One would think that'd be easy enough even if the finer points of the actual interactions were to remain unclear.

MrT
MrT
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Joined: 17 Jan 2006, 11:32

Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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I don't belive the stuff you read like this on the net, or see on youtube for one second.

Theoretically, water has mass. Einstiens equation, E=MC^2 states there is energy in water as water has mass.

However, if someone found how to unlock this energy from water, they would not waste their time making cheap websites and youtube videos or going on chessy news programs, they would be busy selling the secret for millions.

Mr T

ben_watkins
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Joined: 21 Jun 2007, 23:49
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Re: Is this for real, and could it be used in F1?

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Equinox did a documentary film in 1995 on "free energy"..

http://www.videosift.com/video/Equinox- ... ree-energy

50mins vid..

:)
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