2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[the EDGE]

My attempt at sarcasm must have failed. I was trying to say that if McLaren had a "better" PU than Mercedes, thus being the "best", then they might have won a few races

Don´t worry, some people simply like critizicing and discussing for free

Both Boulier and you are right, Boulier because with best PU any team would win some race, and you because that´s just BS thrown to the media to entertain fans like we´re doing here

With best PU or best chassis, any team would win some race, that´s like saying tomorrow the suraise will be at the west


Anycase, a good journalist would haver replied: "and what happened when you were using Mercedes PU?"

So its fair to say McLaren's chassis is far better that Williams & Force India? They had the best engine and neither of them came close to winning

[Andres125sx]

Yes it is. But, is that an appropiate target for McLaren?

[mrluke]

That's outrageous.

Firstly its a complete fabrication as we can all see the Mclaren car is somewhat lacking.

Secondly how is it anybodies fault but Mclaren's that they have a car with anything other than the best PU on the grid installed in it.

When they had the Mercedes PU the only reason they weren't winning was because the Mercedes PU was holding them back as it wasn't their own works unit. Now they have what they wanted and the only reason they aren't winning is because they don't have a Mercedes PU.

Its always everybody else's fault at Mclaren isn't it.

They had the Mercedes engine in 2014, but firstly Mercedes had a superior supercar, better than the whole field, so Mclarens chances for victory were slim as a bandage (and a few 10 hp deficit since they lost the deal). In the other hand the truth is that year they failed to deliver since they had a gret chance to be a second or a third team in the field. The car had problems with not heating the tyres and being overall not capable to compete with Redbulls and Williams, but it was somewhat in par with Ferrari. The engine was good enough, that they had no problems with speed, but as i said the chasis itself was problematic.

In the 2015 and 16 season their biggest problem was the Honda engine if u like it or not. Especially 2015 with almost no testing and catastrophic top speeds (the portion of the blame is not fully on Honda, since Mclaren requested slim design of the engine which proved problematic and was seen with many other manufacturers in the past - slim, small doesnt allways mean better). In 2016 the step was made, but with the tight regulations the progress was deemed to be placing the car somewhere in the middle of midfield, depending of the tracks characteristics. Suzuka was the standing point of engine power deficit and overall shortcomings with it.

I bet that no team - and i mean literally no team in the field would be able to do any better as Mclaren did with the problematic Honda engine (with same specs - and again, not saying Honda didnt do its work properly, since for me the rules are the one which are guilty for the problems that appeared). Maybe few points more and better qualifying, but still, it would be impossible to achieve podiums.

2017 will be the crunchtime season in which it will be shown what are Honda and Mclaren capable to achieve. In the next season, podiums will need to become accesable, if not than they will have serious problems.

There is no substantiation available that says Honda held Mclaren back in 2016.

Not sure when Suzuka became a power track? Then again Mclaren's worst performance was at Silverstone obviously another "power" track.

Even just looking on face value, Mclaren were about the only team never to run a low drag aero setup.

The long and short is either you believe Mclaren are responsible for their own mess, or you believe that they somehow made a car that only works well at "power" tracks and doesn't perform at "chassis" tracks despite having a "terrible" engine.

[Wazari]

There is no substantiation available that says Honda held Mclaren back in 2016.

Not sure when Suzuka became a power track? Then again Mclaren's worst performance was at Silverstone obviously another "power" track.

Even just looking on face value, Mclaren were about the only team never to run a low drag aero setup.

The long and short is either you believe Mclaren are responsible for their own mess, or you believe that they somehow made a car that only works well at "power" tracks and doesn't perform at "chassis" tracks despite having a "terrible" engine.

McLaren did try and run a low DF set up in Australia and Bahrain.

[PlatinumZealot]

Even just looking on face value, Mclaren were about the only team never to run a low drag aero setup.

Wrong. McLaren setup was not in any way low drag. Who told you this?

[Wazari]

Even just looking on face value, Mclaren were about the only team never to run a low drag aero setup.

Wrong. McLaren setup was not in any way low drag. Who told you this?

I think you two are in agreement. "McLaren setup was not in any way low drag.".

[NL_Fer]

Only thing i can conclude, is that McL' claim of developing "efficient-DF" seem to work in 2016. They were doing fine on high-speed-high-DF tracks, their aero is great. Still the car is no Redbull, the Mp4/31 is not fast on every twisty track.

[PlatinumZealot]

Even just looking on face value, Mclaren were about the only team never to run a low drag aero setup.

Wrong. McLaren setup was not in any way low drag. Who told you this?

I think you two are in agreement. "McLaren setup was not in any way low drag.".

Oh crap! My bad. Must have been drunk when i was reading that. sorry mr Luke.

[Sonador]

Í think Honda is on the right way to become succesfull again, they seem very committed, real and humble.
Really like Honda efforts, i think they wil be much better next year.
Mclaren on the other hand i am not so sure.

The chassis development realy dissapointed me, it is not the same Mclaren i know and love from a decade ago.
They used to be very good at chassis development, especially towards the end o the year.
I wonder what is wrong.

Also i do not understand why Boullier is still there.
Sack him, and keep Capito!

Or put a guy in that can motivate people, bring passion and fire back in a team.

Its killing me slowly to see the decline of Mclaren.
And they are taking one of the great drivers of altime with them .....

[adrianjordan]

Í think Honda is on the right way to become succesfull again, they seem very committed, real and humble.
Really like Honda efforts, i think they wil be much better next year.
Mclaren on the other hand i am not so sure.

The chassis development realy dissapointed me, it is not the same Mclaren i know and love from a decade ago.
They used to be very good at chassis development, especially towards the end o the year.
I wonder what is wrong.

Also i do not understand why Boullier is still there.
Sack him, and keep Capito!

Or put a guy in that can motivate people, bring passion and fire back in a team.

Its killing me slowly to see the decline of Mclaren.
And they are taking one of the great drivers of altime with them .....

A decade ago they had a certain Mr Newey there (or had at the very least just lost him so still bore the fruits of his designs) to the team that now have what is widely regarded as the best chassis...hardly a coincidence...

[mclaren111]

Í think Honda is on the right way to become succesfull again, they seem very committed, real and humble.
Really like Honda efforts, i think they wil be much better next year.
Mclaren on the other hand i am not so sure.

The chassis development realy dissapointed me, it is not the same Mclaren i know and love from a decade ago.
They used to be very good at chassis development, especially towards the end o the year.
I wonder what is wrong.

Also i do not understand why Boullier is still there.
Sack him, and keep Capito!

Or put a guy in that can motivate people, bring passion and fire back in a team.

Its killing me slowly to see the decline of Mclaren.
And they are taking one of the great drivers of altime with them .....

Could not agree more Sad times for us at the moment

Let's hope for a miracle in 2017 [-o< [-o<

[bauc]

Í think Honda is on the right way to become succesfull again, they seem very committed, real and humble.
Really like Honda efforts, i think they wil be much better next year.
Mclaren on the other hand i am not so sure.

The chassis development realy dissapointed me, it is not the same Mclaren i know and love from a decade ago.
They used to be very good at chassis development, especially towards the end o the year.
I wonder what is wrong.

Also i do not understand why Boullier is still there.
Sack him, and keep Capito!

Or put a guy in that can motivate people, bring passion and fire back in a team.

Its killing me slowly to see the decline of Mclaren.
And they are taking one of the great drivers of altime with them .....

Mclaren's fall begun when the biggest and the best names started to focus more on the car department instead of the racing team, which lead to a team full of engineers and not racers (in heart,mind, working philosophy ect). They lost the edge in development, they lost the edge in understanding the rules in a way that will create a beast of a machine while implementing a innovative design - something that was a trademark of the Mclaren . The last good ''invention'' was the F-duct, all else failed flat and for me,as a long term Mclaren fan its been the most difficult of times to witness this struggle .

Now, Ron's return and the deal with Honda were a great thing, although the results are far from good and now Ron's left the team in the most ridiculous way ever. However this changes that were made reminded Mclaren that they are firstly a racing team then everything else, and it also showed Honda how far the competitors have moved since they left the sport. In hindsight it gave both Mclaren & Honda a wake-up call and turn their worst nightmares into reality.

Why I'm optimistic?
Well after each storm the sun shines again, and in my opinion they are on the right path but still there is a lot of hard work to be done. The most important thing is that they woke up, they are now again starting to look like a racing team, they make changes, take risks and that approach will bring success eventually. I have a huge faith in Mclaren, and I'm super positive they will be back.

[Wazari]

F1 like many other things boils down to people and money, but more importantly people. I am optimistic about next year from HRD's side because "the feel" is right at Sakura. Not only do you have to have good engineers but you need a core of engineers that have a racer's mindset and now I believe that is in place at HRD. Nakamura-san really wants to win and produce a top-tier PU. The knowledge gained over the past two seasons have been priceless and the rate of improvement has been in geometric increments. Not only are the weaknesses known but several solutions for each area have been designed and are being tested, not just one. Finding failures and blowing up things at this point is a good thing and I love engine destruction on a dyno, haha.....

If I'm being totally honest I am concerned about all the recent changes at McLaren. Changes in leadership can be a good thing but always come with an adjustment period which in this case I hope is minimal. The sponsorship or funding at current doesn't worry me about McLaren but about the direction this new regime will take. I've been told that the mood at Woking is good and the personnel seem upbeat and optimistic about next season. I know much work has been completed for next year's chassis.

I hope EB chooses his words wisely as his latest comments do nothing except make most of us at HRD wish we were supplying at least one more team. Happy New Year everyone!

[PlatinumZealot]

Ah wazari senpai.. Nice insiight yet again.

i sorta hope that Ron buys manor with his asian investors, call it project 5, sign a technical agreement with McLaren and then finally bring in the honda engine. I know time is short for all of this to happen but i can wait till 2018.

[ME4ME]

If Honda want to divert some of the blame they should supply a team that can keep Mclaren honest, similar to what Toro Rosso did to Red Bull at the start of 2015. Manor is too far behind to even challenge Mclaren on their worst day. Honda should be looking at a team like Force India or Williams.

Particularly Williams are in a position where they are stuck. They will never beat the works Mercedes team.