Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

The MGU-K can only harvest 2MJ of energy, the fact that Mercedes has not bothered to revise their MGU-K all season gives evidence to my point of view. If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway. Nowhere did I say that you no longer use the MGU-K I said that you rely on it for harvesting less than your competition.

Do you suppose they use a lot of MGU-K recovery during qualifying? Wouldn't they if it increased performance?

You misunderstand - you'll want to rely more on the MGUK for recovery, as the BBW systems mean that it has no impact on performance, but then you have more energy to deploy. On the other hand, recovering from the exhaust limits ICE power output, which will slow you down

The heaviest braking events require FAR more energy than can be harvested by the MGU-K. Where you can only recover at a rate of 120kW; braking for, let's say, the wall of champions still requires use of the rear brakes.

In other words you are only allowed to harvest a portion of the total braking energy which is several times greater than the harvesting limit.

[Muulka]

The MGU-K can only harvest 2MJ of energy, the fact that Mercedes has not bothered to revise their MGU-K all season gives evidence to my point of view. If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway. Nowhere did I say that you no longer use the MGU-K I said that you rely on it for harvesting less than your competition.

Do you suppose they use a lot of MGU-K recovery during qualifying? Wouldn't they if it increased performance?

You misunderstand - you'll want to rely more on the MGUK for recovery, as the BBW systems mean that it has no impact on performance, but then you have more energy to deploy. On the other hand, recovering from the exhaust limits ICE power output, which will slow you down

The heaviest braking events require FAR more energy than can be harvested by the MGU-K. Where you can only recover at a rate of 120kW; braking for, let's say, the wall of champions still requires use of the rear brakes.

In other words you are only allowed to harvest a portion of the total braking energy which is several times greater than the harvesting limit.

i never said that you don't need the rear brakes. Just that with the control systems you don't have any particular extra tendency to lock the rears. And the harvesting also lets you have less rear brake cooling; this lets you have smaller rear brake ducts, for aero gain. So harvesting more from the MGUK loses you nothing, but the H recovery will be optimised regardless. You'll always want to be as close to the MGUK harvesting limit as you can. It's just more energy to deploy!

[godlameroso]

https://imgur.com/gallery/C8SK6

[NL_Fer]

imo it just shows Ferrari is --- on the brakes, something is seen also in Ferrari-Redbull fights this year. And maybe related, Haas' brake problems.

[wuzak]

The heaviest braking events require FAR more energy than can be harvested by the MGU-K. Where you can only recover at a rate of 120kW; braking for, let's say, the wall of champions still requires use of the rear brakes.

In other words you are only allowed to harvest a portion of the total braking energy which is several times greater than the harvesting limit.

The majority of the braking energy is through the front wheels.

And when Mercedes have had issues with their MGUK they have tended to burn out their rear brakes, as they have among the smallest in the field.

[Muulka]

The heaviest braking events require FAR more energy than can be harvested by the MGU-K. Where you can only recover at a rate of 120kW; braking for, let's say, the wall of champions still requires use of the rear brakes.

In other words you are only allowed to harvest a portion of the total braking energy which is several times greater than the harvesting limit.

The majority of the braking energy is through the front wheels.

And when Mercedes have had issues with their MGUK they have tended to burn out their rear brakes, as they have among the smallest in the field.

I'm pretty sure that they said that Verstappen's fire in the pits during Mexico practice was because of some kind of derate on the MGUK - none of the teams have adequate rear brakes to deal with full braking energy. I don't think that's something unique to Mercedes; the brakes will be much the same size for everyone.

[Juzh]

If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway.

Direct H to K transfer is unlimited

[rscsr]

If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway.

Direct H to K transfer is unlimited

MGU-K is limited to 120kW.

[sosic2121]

If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway.

Direct H to K transfer is unlimited

MGU-K is limited to 120kW.

Is MGU-K also limited to 120kW while generating?

[rscsr]

Direct H to K transfer is unlimited

MGU-K is limited to 120kW.

Is MGU-K also limited to 120kW while generating?

yes. I just checked with the regulations and it says +-120kW.

[wuzak]

If you can harvest 3MJ per lap from the MGU-H, then you can get away with only 1MJ from the K, seeing as you can only use 4MJ per lap anyway.

Direct H to K transfer is unlimited

MGU-K is limited to 120kW.

Unlimited energy per lap.

[Gridlock]

The more interesting fact to me is that 3 years in and the F1 Technical forum still gets confused.

FOM's fault, with a side of Sky.

Help us Mr Carey, you're our only hope.

[godlameroso]

It's very complex, but given enough time everyone more or less can work it out.

[sosic2121]

On average, how long is F1 car braking during one lap?
MGU-K needs almost 17 seconds to charge the battery.
If breaking is shorter than 17s, maybe it's beneficial to start harvest a bit sooner.
Sacrifice some top speed at the end of the straights for better acceleration. Ferrari?!

[FPV GTHO]

MGU-K needs almost 17 seconds to charge the battery.
If breaking is shorter than 17s, maybe it's beneficial to start harvest a bit sooner

Not sure what your calculations are, but legally the MGUK can only contribute half of the battery's 4MJ.