2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[ringo]

An Oxymoron.
First Part -
I predict that, they will turn up in February with a car that looks like an illustration of a part-time F1 journalist from a tabloid, to witness the work of art from other teams and go back to beat their heads to frantically copy that. A Traditional Ferrari method of the past decade.

The could have done better last year with the car that they had. There are at least 8 races that they royally ballsed up and it had nothing to do with the speed of the car. That was really my point, operationally they aren't up to scratch to be topflight in this age. The car that is produced is probably 1/3 of their issues.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Surprised to see you in a 'Ferrari' thread, thought you would be slobbering all over in the 'Lewis Hamilton' thread somewhere..

I don't know how to get marinated in the mediocrity of a team in a team thread. So thought of learning from the experts like you, hence I am here. How deep are you in there? Hope you can listen to me.

It's appalling to see how personal people get on the Ferrari team thread and get personally offended as if the comments are directed at them and their families. May be Ferrari is full of people like this and no wonder Ferrari is at this state.

[santos]

Surprised to see you in a 'Ferrari' thread, thought you would be slobbering all over in the 'Lewis Hamilton' thread somewhere..

I don't know how to get marinated in the mediocrity of a team in a team thread. So thought of learning from the experts like you, hence I am here. How deep are you in there? Hope you can listen to me.

It's appalling to see how personal people get on the Ferrari team thread and get personally offended as if the comments are directed at them and their families. May be Ferrari is full of people like this and no wonder Ferrari is at this state.

Supporting Ferrari is like supporting a football team. Have you tried to go to Madrid and at the doors of Santiago Barnabéu, screaming "Barça is the best team. Real is a sh..t".
I'm a Ferrari fan. And reason i watch formula one it's because Ferrari. I love motorsport, but i only loose time to watch F1. Even in a bad time, Ferrari is 3rd.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Supporting Ferrari is like supporting a football team. Have you tried to go to Madrid and at the doors of Santiago Barnabéu, screaming "Barça is the best team. Real is a sh..t".
I'm a Ferrari fan. And reason i watch formula one it's because Ferrari. I love motorsport, but i only loose time to watch F1. Even in a bad time, Ferrari is 3rd.

A Great place/team/brand is a reflection of the collective efforts of many a number of great people who served there. Without those contributions nothing becomes great on it's own. Similarly, mediocrity is a decease that lousy people spread. Ferrari has seen the former and is currently going through the latter. To me, more than the brand and the team, it is the people who worked there to make it great are respectable.

There is a difference between being a well wisher, a supporter and a fanatic. The third one is a stage where people lose all practicality and logic and behave like morons. Yes, the same people who kill other human beings because of their insanity of team attachment for those football teams. Nothing justifies such moronic behavior. They need psychiatric attention.

[santos]

Supporting Ferrari is like supporting a football team. Have you tried to go to Madrid and at the doors of Santiago Barnabéu, screaming "Barça is the best team. Real is a sh..t".
I'm a Ferrari fan. And reason i watch formula one it's because Ferrari. I love motorsport, but i only loose time to watch F1. Even in a bad time, Ferrari is 3rd.

A Great place/team/brand is a reflection of the collective efforts of many a number of great people who served there. Without those contributions nothing becomes great on it's own. Similarly, mediocrity is a decease that lousy people spread. Ferrari has seen the former and is currently going through the latter. To me, more than the brand and the team, it is the people who worked there to make it great are respectable.

There is a difference between being a well wisher, a supporter and a fanatic. The third one is a stage where people lose all practicality and logic and behave like morons. Yes, the same people who kill other human beings because of their insanity of team attachment for those football teams. Nothing justifies such moronic behavior. They need psychiatric attention.

In every sport that envolves some pation, there will always exist fanatics and haters. Ferrari is the team that have the most fanatic fans, and probably the most haters.
It's something cultural from latin people. It's not easy to hear someone talking bad of our team, even knowing that they are right.

[TAG]

I'll have to correct you there. They didn't deliberatly 'tank' seasons but there was no aim to win either so plugs didnt need to be pulled. They were follwing a very deliberate curve laid out in 2010 that ended in 2014 with WDC and WCC.

I expect Renault to do something similar, I dont expect Ferrari to learn anything from it.

I imagine Norbert Haug probably sees things a bit differently.

Even so, I think you're quite right to believe that Ferrari won't follow a similar path. As we've seen over the last few years, there's just not enough discipline in Maranello for the team to do anything that requires tempering an emotional drive for instant gratification.

What Ferrari calls "passion," I call "immaturity."

ESPNF1 "We said to the board: 'Either we step up or we ought to step back because we're in between at the moment.' The board, all credit to them, said: 'OK, we'll step up. We'll give it a go. What do you need?'

"So it was then that we put the project teams together for 2014. We hired Aldo Costa. We hired Geoff Willis. We hired the people we needed and it started to come together. That's the strategic planning you need. You've got to have a vision of where you want to be in six, 12 months, a year, two years."

Brawn says next year's regulations will shift the emphasis away from the power units and back towards the chassis, but believes engine performance should still be differentiator in Formula One.

How many times have we had this little back and fourth? C'est la vie.

[bhall II]

At this point, it's sorta like target practice. I think we all know Ferrari's schizophrenic strategy is unlikely to bear fruit; the fun part is trying to guess exactly how it will fail.

My bold prediction is that next year's car - to be named something that breaks with recent tradition in order to signal a "new beginning" or a "return" to the team's "roots" - will be better than expected, a la SF15-T, in part because of Allison's work over the last few years addressing fundamental problems, not to mention his controversial decision to abandon SF16-H relatively early. This will falsely be viewed a sign that the team is headed in the right direction.

Ferrari's 2018 contender, which will be the first non-engine project of Mattia Binotto's career, will be delayed by a futile attempt to remain competitive throughout the 2017 season, and it will ultimately amount to little more than a 150° Italia-like failure, i.e. a decent execution of a bad idea. Marchionne will then initiate a brand new series of upheavals, as he will never, ever understand that he himself is Ferrari's biggest problem. (To be fair, that mindset appears to be a sign of the times. If anyone can ever figure out how to turn hubris and delusion into useful energy, then no one would ever have to worry about energy again.)

Sound about right?

They need psychiatric attention.

I resemble that remark!

[SR71]

At this point, it's sorta like target practice. I think we all know Ferrari's schizophrenic strategy is unlikely to bear fruit. The fun part is trying to guess exactly how it will fail.

My bold prediction is that next year's car - to be named something that breaks with recent tradition in order to signal a "new beginning" or a "return" to the team's "roots" - will be better than expected, a la SF15-T, in part because of Allison's work over the last few years addressing fundamental problems, not to mention his controversial decision to abandon SF16-H relatively early. This will falsely be viewed a sign that the team is headed in the right direction.

Ferrari's 2018 contender, which will be the first non-engine project of Mattia Binotto's career, will be delayed by a futile attempt to remain competitive throughout the 2017 season, and it will ultimately amount to little more than a 150° Italia-like failure, i.e. a decent execution of a bad idea. Marchionne will then initiate a brand new upheaval, as he will never, ever understand that he himself is Ferrari's biggest problem. (To be fair, that mindset appears to be a sign of the times. If anyone can ever figure out how to turn hubris and delusion into useful energy, then no one would ever have to worry about energy again.)

Sound about right?

They need psychiatric attention.

I resemble that remark!

100% agree with this prediction.

I'd like to add, 2019 - repeat 2017. 2020 - repeat 2018. Endless loop of delusion that they will win next year without paying dues this year.

[ds.raikkonen]

Surprised to see you in a 'Ferrari' thread, thought you would be slobbering all over in the 'Lewis Hamilton' thread somewhere..

I don't know how to get marinated in the mediocrity of a team in a team thread. So thought of learning from the experts like you, hence I am here. How deep are you in there? Hope you can listen to me.

It's appalling to see how personal people get on the Ferrari team thread and get personally offended as if the comments are directed at them and their families. May be Ferrari is full of people like this and no wonder Ferrari is at this state.

I don't think my comments sounded as if I am personally offended mate. It is you who has started this whole culture of 'hate a particular team' that had driven people away from this forum. Go back and read your comments in the race threads and tell me if I am wrong. I am sure many will agree with what I am saying.
Be neutral and support whoever you want to support. Or don't, nobody is bothered anyway. Probably you can learn the art of being 'subtle', it'll do everyone a world of good. Sports attract all sorts of supporters-fanatics, logical etc. You are no one to judge who is what.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

At this point, it's sorta like target practice. I think we all know Ferrari's schizophrenic strategy is unlikely to bear fruit; the fun part is trying to guess exactly how it will fail.

Good news for you Ben. Your criticism has paid off.

Link -> Marchionne not predicting 2017 title

Sergio Marchionne says he has learned his lesson and will no longer be making any bold predictions for 2017.

This year, many commentators said Ferrari was in obvious 'crisis' after the new Ferrari president targeted wins and the title but ultimately finished behind both Mercedes and Red Bull.

"Do not expect proclamations," Marchionne said at Ferrari's Christmas media lunch on Monday.

"Last time I was careless but now I only ask for us to do better than 2016, which does not seem difficult."

[Gridlock]

Losing Alonso was "careless"; predicting championships was delusional and unhelpful.

[MakkieT]

Looking ahead a bit, i think Ferrari can build a good car for 2017.
2016 was more operational issues than it was engineering and performance. They had really good pace at some points in 2016, but operations deficiencies were responsible for missed opportunities, development direction and frequency, and also driver deliverables.
The 2016 car didn't have any obvious weakness. The biggest weakness of the car was that it was difficult drive and to setup to get pace out of it.
The car was ok overall so i think Ferrari can do a much better job for 2017 on the technical front. They can build a top car next year; it's not impossible for them to do it, and i don't think it's any harder for them than it is mercedes or redbull. What they need to do is improve operations and HR management. Get the people to work in the right way, and also restructure their policies and culture to get what we see in redbull and mercedes. They seem too cognisant of conservatism and maintaining old cultures in the workplace; they aren't very progressive thinking.

Agreed. I do not post very often. I am a long time F1 and ferrari-fan. Seen ups and (quite a lot of) downs. "Down" in ferrari's case is not winning the WDC/WCC. So it's all relative. They were not as bad last year as it looked. There were just too many mistakes by too many people. I for one am glad that they did not reshuffle again (so no Paddy Lowe etc.). They chose a path and they're sticking with it. Their form-curve was upwards towards the end of the season after a slump mid-season. There were years (especially mid '80's and early '90's) they seemed lost. They do not seem to be lost to me now. So I'm moderately positive for next year. I would have been more worried if they restructured again.

[bhall II]

At this point, it's sorta like target practice. I think we all know Ferrari's schizophrenic strategy is unlikely to bear fruit; the fun part is trying to guess exactly how it will fail.

Good news for you Ben. Your criticism has paid off.

Yeah, I saw that. The Autosport version is a bit more illuminating...

Marchionne suggested summer restructuring of the team has addressed Ferrari's major weaknesses.

"We have two drivers who have been world champions, a great will to win, a restructured team who is now better able to react development-wise," he added.

"We wanted to reform the team, and most of all make it more transparent with its exchange of information.

"Now there is the one team, regardless of the departments and the competences, just like the car is one - it's never been this way in the past.

"This is also the reason why one year ago I was wrong to be so optimistic - if one of my men tells me something, I don't go verify it, I believe him and that's it.

Motorsport.com has learned that he has held a series of key meetings at Maranello with the chassis and aerodynamic departments – with a particular focus on speaking to those who report to department heads as well as their juniors.

Marchionne is determined to find out whether or not there is a belief from the shop floor that more potential can be extracted from the SF16-H, and if the true state of progress of the car is as he has been led to believe by senior management.

The man is insane, and he's literally promoting ignorance...

Marco Mattiacci, who made his first appearance in Shanghai, had previously been the company’s sales director in the USA, and one wondered quite how this qualified him for the job, and why di Montezemolo had chosen him.

In point of fact, he hadn’t. “Be careful,” an Italian colleague told me at the time. “This is not a Luca appointment – it has nothing to do with him. This is a Marchionne appointment…”

Arrivabene is a man with a no racing experience. The 58-year-old Ferrari boss has two decades of marketing and promotion experience and has been a part of Ferrari for some time representing the sport's sponsors.

"[New Technical Director] Mattia [Binotto] knows how to motivate people, he has great experience but he is not a technical director. He knows he cannot design a car and does not have deep knowledge of the chassis, aerodynamics or mechanical side. He would be a good team principal instead."

Mr. Marchionne doesn’t look like a typical car executive. His uniform is a black sweater over a button-down shirt with black pants, and you get the sense he can’t be bothered to find a hairbrush. Unlike Ms. Barra or Mark Fields of Ford Motor, both of whom rose through the corporate ranks, Mr. Marchionne never even worked for a car company before taking the top job at Fiat in 2004.

That's right, tifosi. When James Allison was helping Ferrari claim eight Championships between 2000 and 2004, the man who thinks he knows better was not then, nor had he ever been, so much as even peripherally associated with the automotive industry.

And his naive push for greater transparency within the team is likely going to turn Scuderia Ferrari into an idea store, because rivals will be able to poach anyone, including low-cost junior engineers, to learn what the team is planning. Like the man said, "it's never been this way in the past."

There's a reason for the sign that adorns McLaren's simulator...

[Webber2011]

I'm no expert on Ferrari, or their management, but I know they have been pretty much in the doldrums for almost a decade now Championship wise.
Fact is, they haven't won a Championship since 2007, and to be honest they don't look like winning one soon.
For many, many moons they've appeared to be a Team in disarray.

What is it about this Team ?

Is it just the Italian mind set ?

I have a mate who lived in Italy for a few years who actually became a reasonably successful business man, and he tried to buy a bar as an investment, but the hoops he had to go through were ridiculous compared to say Australia, where I live.

So I'm asking this honestly without any racism or disrespect.

Is the Italian mindset so much harder to work with in F1 ?

[ripper]

Well... the amount of burocracy and regulations, laws, local laws here in Italy is absurdly high and it is well known that this hampers foreign investments here (to oversimplify: why invest where you don't know how much time you'll take to have all the papers done and which papers are needed?).

It is also possible that Italian working culture, based on many small and medium small enterprises, where roles are not well defined and one employee has to do different tasks has an impact on bigger company: if you professionally grow up in a "unregulated" working ambient I can imagine that it might be hard to perform at 100% when you switch to a place of 1000+ workers where everything HAS to be strictly regulated. I see some small changes in the working culture, at least here in northern Italy where I live, but changes are slow and I guess it is also related to old workers retiring and younger people entering in the market and filling command positions.

I remember a Niki Lauda interview, that I can't find it now, that said that he was a little worried (ok he and Toto are always worried in interviews...) about Vettel joining Ferrari because he could bring some "german approach" to the italian working culture... I guess he wasn't totally off and sometimes we need someone that is a little more "schematic" to prevent our "italian organized chaos" to go totally out of control. We italians sometimes say that "...but we are flexible" but, while sometimes it is true, I suspect that sometimes it is a statement used to cover our chronic disorganization.

Just my two cents.