While the technical regulations regarding the power units are going into their 4th stable year, Mercedes' engine Chief, Andy Cowell, has noted there are still gains to be made. Cowell underlined that the key to these continued improvements are Mercedes' proven testing facility.
It is not so secretive anymore. In every plane you will find machines not far from F1 is using, and automotive working hard on electrification made them more easily available than few years back, with prices dropping down. What's been state of the art in F1 at the begining if V6 era, now is being on the way to the market.godlameroso wrote:Well seeing as how the system is probably operating ~400V, to produce 120kW means 300 amps of current, you're not getting something commercial to be that small unless you're using rare earth permanent magnets in concentric layers, and unique geometric motion to get that kind of current. I don't know what your experience is with 3 phase generators but commonly they're not small devices that fit neatly into the V of an engine. Like I said a lot of this technology is taken for granted because of how secretive it is.
https://www.nasa.gov/centers/glenn/about/fs14grc.htmlPlatinumZealot wrote:F1 mguh probably on ball bearings (...)
If they are using roller bearings they'd likely be ceramic.PlatinumZealot wrote:F1 mguh probably on ball bearings because of the heat and transient load i supposed. I have never seen a magnetic bearing motor in the flesh. So can anyone enlighten?
There are commercial microturbines in the 100 kW class that operates at 60000-70000 rpm with life expectancies of 60,000 hours, so a high speed alternator for F1 use shouldn't be a major design problem.godlameroso wrote:Very true, in fact which generator do you know besides these that operate at such a speed?wuzak wrote:Commonly 3 phase industrial motors don't rev to 125,000rpm.godlameroso wrote: I don't know what your experience is with 3 phase generators but commonly they're not small devices that fit neatly into the V of an engine. Like I said a lot of this technology is taken for granted because of how secretive it is.
Typically you use angular contact ball bearings in applications like this, can be ceramic or tool steel, or a combination with tool steel bearing races and ceramic balls.godlameroso wrote:If they are using roller bearings they'd likely be ceramic.PlatinumZealot wrote:F1 mguh probably on ball bearings because of the heat and transient load i supposed. I have never seen a magnetic bearing motor in the flesh. So can anyone enlighten?
roon wrote:I have an idea regarding the Mercedes works team's charge air plumbing. It's been rumored for some time now that the W07 & previous chassis have an air-to-water intercooler installed within the monocoque, forward of the engine. I have yet to see photos of this charge cooler, nor any photos of the backside of the monocoque which might show how it is installed. I gladly welcome anyone to post such photos if they exist.
It's a fun theory but it's impossible due to safety regulations. The fuel system has to be closed (and pulling all the air trough it suggest it isn't). Even the breather has to have its own outlet.roon wrote:I have an idea regarding the Mercedes works team's charge air plumbing. It's been rumored for some time now that the W07 & previous chassis have an air-to-water intercooler installed within the monocoque, forward of the engine. I have yet to see photos of this charge cooler, nor any photos of the backside of the monocoque which might show how it is installed. I gladly welcome anyone to post such photos if they exist.
Regardless, the proximity of the fuel tank to the intercooler in such an arrangement causes me to think that something more could be going on. Might they be piping charge air directly into, and out of, the fuel tank?
If so, it might present an opportunity to combine fuel vapor & charge air. Introducing fuel vapor present in the fuel tank to the charge air could be a way of providing extra fuel to the power unit beyond what is measure by the fuel flow meter. Which could explain some of the Mercedes works team's horsepower advantages. I imagine such a system acting as an equivalent to port fuel injection, which is outlawed, working in conjunction with the direct injection system & turbulent jet ignition (TJI).
The details of such an arrangement I can only guess at. Could the entire fuel tank be used as a pressure vessel, charged by the compressor and the vapor pressure of heated fuel? Would you need actively metered control of vapor ingestion? Or would a carburetor-like device suffice?
My reading of the rules regarding the fuel system, fuel tank, and engine operation leads me to believe that such a design could be legal. Interested to hear others' thoughts.
I thought it was small too, however it is quiet hard to ascertain its size.ringo wrote:Looking on the size of that intercooler. The mercedes is probably twin cooled.
Anyhow, the williams clearly has a power advantage over the other engined cars, and the force india, and they have different intercooling systems from the works team, so the power advantage of mercedes is not necessarily some trick oxygen enrichment.
