2014-2020 Formula One 1.6l V6 turbo engine formula

[wuzak]

If the mercedes layout is used by another team... can there be more than one MHUG on the same shaft connecting compressor to turbine?
I was doing some brainstorming, and i think much of the shaft deflection can be elimination if two MGUH units are used, one being on the back of the compressor and another on the back of the turbine; all along the same shaft with only small spaces in between for heat dissipation.

Only one MGUH allowed.

And the distance between the compressor and turbine can't be much more than 300-400mm. One MGUH in between them would take up most of that space, the big problem would keeping it all aligned.

[Blackout]

The new ES packaging rules arent very clear to me too. Do they urge the teams to put everything in the surviving cell, not only the battery but also the electronic control units and inverters?
The Renault cars for example had them in the sidepos AFAIK.

[Brian Coat]

It seems not to include the electronics unless I missed another clause, eleswhere in the rules ...

"1.14 Survival cell : A continuous closed structure containing the fuel tank, the cockpit and the parts of the ES defined in Article 5.4.3.

[...]

5.4.3 The total weight of the part of the ES that stores energy, i.e. the cells (including any clamping plates) and electrical connections between cells, must be no less than 20kg and must not exceed 25kg."

[Blackout]

You're right IMO
But the older version said just his:

1.14 Survival cell :
A continuous closed structure containing the fuel tank and the cockpit.

Edit: I finally found this but these rules are scheduled for 2018, it seems (as well as the minimum engine air temp reg):
http://www.fia.com/regulations/search?s ... egulations

5.12 Energy Recovery System (ERS) :
5.12.6 All elements of the power unit specified in Article 5.12.7 must be installed wholly within the
survival cell.
The total weight of these elements (The weight considered is the sum of the individual
weights of these elements) must be greater than the minimum weight of the same elements
determined between all the homologated power units at the start of the 2017 season.
The volume occupied by these elements (The volume considered is the sum of the individual
volumes occupied by these elements) must be greater than the minimum volume of the same
elements determined between all the homologated power units at the start of the 2017
season.
5.12.7 The elements of the power unit that are considered for Article 5.12.6 are :
a) ES elements as defined in lines 15 and 16 of Appendix 2 to these regulations.
b) Any DC-DC converter connected to ES HV DC bus. Includes active parts, enclosure,
brackets and supports.
c) CU-K (MGU-K control unit). Includes active parts, enclosure, brackets and supports.
d) CU-H (MGU-H control unit). Includes active parts, enclosure, brackets and supports.
e) HV DC connections between ES and CU-K/CU-H/DC-DC converter. Includes all
conductors, insulation, EMC screening, mechanical and thermal shielding

[roon]

With the token system ending, I imagine there will be a convergence by the other manufactures toward the Mercedes PU layout. I'm curious if anyone would offer reasons against the other manufacturers doing that.

That said I still wonder if there's room for new interpretations of the rules. One I had, which should be legal if I've read said rules correctly, would be to make an effective V-4 or I-3 within the V-6 architecture. Toward the benefit of reduced frictional & pumping losses. For example, you might have two or three dummy cylinders housing non or semi-functional 'legality' components which satisfy material & dimension regulations.

Or, to take a different path, reserve two or three cylinders solely for compression or expansion, fed from, or into, the other cylinders. There are many concept engines to read about on the net which feature multicylinder compression or expansion schemes, which purport to be more efficient than 'traditional' engines. But of course that's always the claim, and usually true only within a specific context.

[Zynerji]

You're right IMO
But the older version said just his:

1.14 Survival cell :
A continuous closed structure containing the fuel tank and the cockpit.

Edit: I finally found this but these rules are scheduled for 2018, it seems (as well as the minimum engine air temp reg):
http://www.fia.com/regulations/search?s ... egulations

5.12 Energy Recovery System (ERS) :
5.12.6 All elements of the power unit specified in Article 5.12.7 must be installed wholly within the
survival cell.
The total weight of these elements (The weight considered is the sum of the individual
weights of these elements) must be greater than the minimum weight of the same elements
determined between all the homologated power units at the start of the 2017 season.
The volume occupied by these elements (The volume considered is the sum of the individual
volumes occupied by these elements) must be greater than the minimum volume of the same
elements determined between all the homologated power units at the start of the 2017
season.
5.12.7 The elements of the power unit that are considered for Article 5.12.6 are :
a) ES elements as defined in lines 15 and 16 of Appendix 2 to these regulations.
b) Any DC-DC converter connected to ES HV DC bus. Includes active parts, enclosure,
brackets and supports.
c) CU-K (MGU-K control unit). Includes active parts, enclosure, brackets and supports.
d) CU-H (MGU-H control unit). Includes active parts, enclosure, brackets and supports.
e) HV DC connections between ES and CU-K/CU-H/DC-DC converter. Includes all
conductors, insulation, EMC screening, mechanical and thermal shielding

Minimum Intake Air Temp?

Is someone abusing the intercooler that they are trying to prevent? Or is there more tech to be discovered in this area.

And by defining all of these aspects, we will have spec engines.

[roon]

Perhaps Merc was doing something interesting. Their air-to-water intercooler was installed within the monocoque, same area as the fuel tank...

Or it could be that the teams agreed that intercooling development had few projected gains to offer relative to development cost.

[shady]

It may be one way they could be warming their fuel.

[stevesingo]

It may be one way they could be warming their fuel.

At the same time as cooling the intake charge temps.

[godlameroso]

Maybe instead of water they cool the intake charge with fuel? But that doesn't make sense, they could heat their fuel other ways, like off the MGU-H.

[Craigy]

Maybe instead of water they cool the intake charge with fuel? But that doesn't make sense, they could heat their fuel other ways, like off the MGU-H.

Could they have a lot of dry ice or similar to cool the water part of the intercooler and the radiators?
It would only have to last for a couple of minutes in quali, and they don't actually need airflow, just cool temps.

If something like dry ice blocked part of the sidepod vents, the drag of the car would likely go down significantly too.

[gruntguru]

Maybe instead of water they cool the intake charge with fuel? But that doesn't make sense, they could heat their fuel other ways, like off the MGU-H.

Could they have a lot of dry ice or similar to cool the water part of the intercooler and the radiators?
It would only have to last for a couple of minutes in quali, and they don't actually need airflow, just cool temps.

If something like dry ice blocked part of the sidepod vents, the drag of the car would likely go down significantly too.

Not legal (phase change cooling media) and efficiency suffers when cooling the charge that much. (efficiency = power)

[hurril]

They could cool the fuel so that the effort to warm it for optimal combustion, reduces the need for more air cooling of the coolers. Essentially making the fuel a huge expansion bottle.

[inox]

http://www.formula1benzing.eu/

Enrico Benzing has been writing recently a lot about teams constantly exceeding the fuel flow limits. From what I understand from his estimations, the ICE power figures have risen by 200 hp since the beginning of 2014 and the increase in power is only made possible because engine manufacturers are able to circumvent the 100 kg/h rule. He says that increasing fuel flow by 1 kg/h brings 10 extra hp and appears to estimate that maximum fuel rate in qualifying is already approaching 120kg/h. What do you think, can they really reach this high fuel flow rates without being caught?

At least I have always suspected that Mercedes is able to feed a lot more fuel in their qualifying mode. Or are there other ways to get out significantly more power for short periods than in normal race conditions?

[godlameroso]

Perhaps when fuel is closer to it's vapor phase prior to combustion the leaner you can make the mixture. Which is where the discrepancy comes in, the author assumes they're using conventional means.