Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[ringo]

If its symmetrical it's not wider than the engine sans exhaust manifold.
A lot of focus has been on honda and renault engines, and there has been little or nithing on mercedes expected improvements. Maybe there arent any?

[SparkyAMG]

A relative of mine spends a lot of time consulting for all of the F1 teams around Luton/Milton Keyes.

The last time I spoke to him about F1 was in the summer, but the development he was most excited about at the time was something Mercedes HPP were trying with their exhaust system for 2017, describing it as 'ground-breaking'.

Because of NDAs he couldn't say any more, and out of respect I didn't push it, but considering he's been in the game a long time (approaching retirement) his excitement was enough to tell me it was a significant development.

I wouldn't take the lack of news about improvements to mean there aren't any.

[godlameroso]

I bet you it has to do with exhaust pulse wave tuning

[PlatinumZealot]

I have an idea regarding the Mercedes works team's charge air plumbing. It's been rumored for some time now that the W07 & previous chassis have an air-to-water intercooler installed within the monocoque, forward of the engine. I have yet to see photos of this charge cooler, nor any photos of the backside of the monocoque which might show how it is installed. I gladly welcome anyone to post such photos if they exist.

Regardless, the proximity of the fuel tank to the intercooler in such an arrangement causes me to think that something more could be going on. Might they be piping charge air directly into, and out of, the fuel tank?

If so, it might present an opportunity to combine fuel vapor & charge air. Introducing fuel vapor present in the fuel tank to the charge air could be a way of providing extra fuel to the power unit beyond what is measure by the fuel flow meter. Which could explain some of the Mercedes works team's horsepower advantages. I imagine such a system acting as an equivalent to port fuel injection, which is outlawed, working in conjunction with the direct injection system & turbulent jet ignition (TJI).

The details of such an arrangement I can only guess at. Could the entire fuel tank be used as a pressure vessel, charged by the compressor and the vapor pressure of heated fuel? Would you need actively metered control of vapor ingestion? Or would a carburetor-like device suffice?

My reading of the rules regarding the fuel system, fuel tank, and engine operation leads me to believe that such a design could be legal. Interested to hear others' thoughts.

The fuel tank wouldn't take the pressure. Those flat walls would belly like no tomorrow.

But let's say it is a thick walled tank (i am assuming that the bladder is pressed against the tank). And the pressure rises to 50psi on boost, you would have to estimate how mouch fuel would evaporate into that air stream.. Because you would have to route the entire air flow thru the fuel tank for it to entrain the fuel vapours (sealed tank) and your oxygen sensors would be working overtime trying to dial back the injectors for this extra fuel sucked in thru the intake. And lets not forget.. sucking in the fuel via the intake.. You would lose some knock resistance.

Clever idea though i must say.

[PlatinumZealot]

A relative of mine spends a lot of time consulting for all of the F1 teams around Luton/Milton Keyes.

The last time I spoke to him about F1 was in the summer, but the development he was most excited about at the time was something Mercedes HPP were trying with their exhaust system for 2017, describing it as 'ground-breaking'.

Because of NDAs he couldn't say any more, and out of respect I didn't push it, but considering he's been in the game a long time (approaching retirement) his excitement was enough to tell me it was a significant development.

I wouldn't take the lack of news about improvements to mean there aren't any.

Tri-scroll turbo?
Twist-formed pipes to reduce turblunt energy loss?

[gruntguru]

Re: Jolle. How would fuel vapor present in the charge piping, or combustion of it in the cylinders, be represented by the ECU?

Integration of the fuel flow meter data over the duration of the race will give the total fuel used. It would be pretty obvious if this did not agree with the actual fuel consumed (no doubt also checked by officials).

[roon]

I bet you it has to do with exhaust pulse wave tuning

But in what sense would it be groundbreaking? Presumably something beyond equal length headers, helmoltz, expansion chambers, etc.

[Juzh]

I bet you it has to do with exhaust pulse wave tuning

Likely aimed at max increased mgu-h recovery.

[Gridlock]

Could be thermal, some sort of heat exchange, into the fuel maybe (could get interesting).

[hurril]

I don't think there's any trickery with the charge air being led through the fuel tank, but do you think there's something to be gained from simply venting the fuel tank into the compressor inlet? Combined with heating the entire fuel tank with the intercooler, it seems to me that the vaporisation could be increased. (While at the same time, augmenting the cooling effort of the intercooler.)

[godlameroso]

Forbidden by the regulations, although there's nothing preventing teams from using hot surfaces to pre-heat fuel prior to injection. Which is why I thought it could be possible the intercooler is air/liquid, and the liquid in this case being fuel, but then fuel is a lousy coolant and only really cools when it evaporates. That and the MGU-H runs quite hot and would probably supply more heat than the charge air cooler.

Who knows, maybe they're turning the entire exhaust + turbine into a TEG to supplement the MGU-H. Or maybe electromagnetic pulses to aid scavenging, pulse wave tuning with plasma actuators?

https://gdtl.osu.edu/sites/gdtl.osu.edu ... ia/jet.gif

[roon]

To what extent, if any, is exhaust gas recirculation being used under the current ruleset?

[godlameroso]

To what extent, if any, is exhaust gas recirculation being used under the current ruleset?

I don't know, why have any EGR at all? Adding charge dilution slows down combustion speed does it not?

[BrunoH]

Could be that for them ground breaking is maybe making an extra 5 hp via the exhaust... since its so optimized already.. adding 5hp or something could be considered a lot, plus you can view it as ´´free hp´´

[roon]

Not sure. I'm more familiar with it as an emissions control technology. Strange thing is that it's explicitly mentioned and permitted in the rulebook.

Wikipedia lists its two main efficiency benefits as reduced throttling losses & reduced heat rejection due to lower combustion.

Regarding throttling losses, my take is that you could potentially leave the throttle wide open, maybe even ditch it, by using fine control of EGR, boost, fuel injection, & spark to act as your replacement 'throttle.'