Hulkenberg vs Perez - who won and what did we learn?

[Fulcrum]

It's difficult to remember one when it didn't result in a podium. Race attention is focused on the front, most of the time anyway, and post-race attention invariably concerns the winners.

IMO, Hulkenberg's most memorable moments were qualifying in Brazil 2010 - pole position - and Brazil 2012 - running 1st with a 45 second lead over 3rd place before the safety car was deployed; then running into the back of Lewis while still in 2nd place. In slightly different circumstances this could have resulted in a win or very easy 2nd. Outside of F1, Le Man is the obvious achievement.

Heidfeld probably has more in common with Perez: 13 podiums for 4 different constructors at a very similar podium:start ratio as Perez; not being the strongest qualifier but a quick and tactical racer; physically small. Heidfeld performed against more highly rated opposition (Raikkonen, Massa, Frentzen, Pantano, Webber, Kubica) over a longer duration than Perez (Kobayashi, Button, Hulkenberg) though, so I don't personally think Perez is in the same league (yet).

Heidfeld and Hulkenberg are German, and both were overlooked by major teams. They've each had one realistic chance to win, and failed to do so. Heidfeld in Canada, 2008 (2nd to Kubica), Hulkenberg in Brazil, 2012. That's about it. Hulkenberg can only dream of achieving Heidfeld's career record.

[Sevach]

Perez won these 3 years, he brought home the bacon and proved himself.

The funny thing is if they were in a Mercedes situation Hulkenberg might still be the better choice because of slightly superior speed on a clear track.

[Vasconia]

Hulk had like five years to prove himself. He is quick.. But.. Can't remember any outstanding drives. Sorta like the new Nick heidfeld. Quick Nick part two.

I have always liked Nico but at some point you are right. A few years ago he used to have some notable performances but his last two years have been disappointing. I was expecting more from him. Perez has been more spectacular and with some great races and excellents results, mainly in 2015 and 2016. I don´t know if the tyres are enough reason to explain this, I cant judge this properly.

Anyway, I am quite hopeful now because since he signed with Renault we have seen a much better Nico. So I expect to see his best face now that he seems to be fully motivated and commited again.

[f1316]

Perez won these 3 years, he brought home the bacon and proved himself.

The funny thing is if they were in a Mercedes situation Hulkenberg might still be the better choice because of slightly superior speed on a clear track.

Out of interest, had he not just signed with Renault, do we think Mercedes would have picked Nico ahead of Bottas?

I kinda think they might have. I think he's quicker, he's German, they wouldn't have had to learn a new name...

[Pierce89]

Hulk had like five years to prove himself. He is quick.. But.. Can't remember any outstanding drives. Sorta like the new Nick heidfeld. Quick Nick part two.

I have always liked Nico but at some point you are right. A few years ago he used to have some notable performances but his last two years have been disappointing. I was expecting more from him. Perez has been more spectacular and with some great races and excellents results, mainly in 2015 and 2016. I don´t know if the tyres are enough reason to explain this, I cant judge this properly.

Anyway, I am quite hopeful now because since he signed with Renault we have seen a much better Nico. So I expect to see his best face now that he seems to be fully motivated and commited again.

Hulkenberg has been in position for those podiums and whatnot. He's was ahead of Perez for a podium multiple times when he had either mechanical problems or opponent induced wrecks. He and Fernando seem to be the only two drivers who ALWAYS find themself in wrong place at the wrong time(Hulk on track and Fred in team choice).

[Sevach]

Out of interest, had he not just signed with Renault, do we think Mercedes would have picked Nico ahead of Bottas?

I kinda think they might have. I think he's quicker, he's German, they wouldn't have had to learn a new name...

Tough call, on one hand there's the Bottas>Wolff connection on another there's the fact that Nico's contract was pretty open unlike Bottas and Williams.

[Vasconia]

Hulk had like five years to prove himself. He is quick.. But.. Can't remember any outstanding drives. Sorta like the new Nick heidfeld. Quick Nick part two.

I have always liked Nico but at some point you are right. A few years ago he used to have some notable performances but his last two years have been disappointing. I was expecting more from him. Perez has been more spectacular and with some great races and excellents results, mainly in 2015 and 2016. I don´t know if the tyres are enough reason to explain this, I cant judge this properly.

Anyway, I am quite hopeful now because since he signed with Renault we have seen a much better Nico. So I expect to see his best face now that he seems to be fully motivated and commited again.

Hulkenberg has been in position for those podiums and whatnot. He's was ahead of Perez for a podium multiple times when he had either mechanical problems or opponent induced wrecks. He and Fernando seem to be the only two drivers who ALWAYS find themself in wrong place at the wrong time(Hulk on track and Fred in team choice).

I can´t recall all of those races but I have the feeling that Perez had a better performance. Anyway 2016 was far from being his best year until he signed with Renault.

Man, I hope Nico is not as unlucky as Fernando has been choosing teams.

[Vasconia]

Out of interest, had he not just signed with Renault, do we think Mercedes would have picked Nico ahead of Bottas?

I kinda think they might have. I think he's quicker, he's German, they wouldn't have had to learn a new name...

Tough call, on one hand there's the Bottas>Wolff connection on another there's the fact that Nico's contract was pretty open unlike Bottas and Williams.

I guess Nico would have been a better option but he had signed with Renault so there was no chance for them.

[PlatinumZealot]

It makes me wonder what kind of team we will see from Renault next year when a man such as Vasseur departed it due to disgreements on team structure and other management issues.

[Vasconia]

It makes me wonder what kind of team we will see from Renault next year when a man such as Vasseur departed it due to disgreements on team structure and other management issues.

It must be worrying to Nico when he sees that the man who signed him and was in charge of the team is fired/leaves the team. Not the best thing when you are trying to build a WC contender team.

[Ennis]

I feel both their reputations has dipped as a result of being paired against each other, which is backwards - but that's the world.

Hulk has performed fairly well, but many people underestimate Perez.
Perez has performed fairly well, but many people underestimate Hulk.

If either of them had a weaker teammate, they'd have a much better reputation going in to next season.

I believe overall Perez is the better of the two. His tyre management has helped, of course, but I also believe he is so much more than that - he's just found a specific strategy that helps to elevate the FI and play to the car's strengths (straight line speed keeping others behind for much of the race despite degrading tyres).

His reputation was damaged by McLaren. But he was a young guy, being openly criticised in a team which was suffering a sudden dip in form to a level they really weren't used to, with all the internal politics and finger pointing that came with it. His first big move, the pressure that is inbuilt, and then throw in the pressure of everything happening internally and being up against a guy who was already VERY familiar with the team...

I think, unfortunately, both have missed the boat on getting a really big move (Ferrari or Merc). Of the 2, Hulk is arguably in the better position because he at least stands a chance of Renault elevating massively.

[Pierce89]

It makes me wonder what kind of team we will see from Renault next year when a man such as Vasseur departed it due to disgreements on team structure and other management issues.

I saw an interview with Vasseur. He basically told them to stop second guessing him or he was out, and they continued to second guess his moves. So.... he left. Too few people in f1 are like that these days.

[PlatinumZealot]

They didn't trust his abilities it seems. That sounds like Cyril.