2017 AMG Mercedes F1 Team - Mercedes

[tomazy]

We have to remmember that F1 is a team sport. It is all good if you don't share your data with your team mate when your car is a second quicker than the others. The problem comes, when one driver is faster and one is alower than drivers from the other team and not sharing the data can lose the team points and a potential constructors championchip.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The problem comes, when one driver is faster and one is alower than drivers from the other team ....

That's the time you change the driver. May be someone else deserves that place. Classic example of Red Bull situation from 2016, when they removed Kvyat and replaced him with Verstappen. See what we got.

[Gridlock]

I wonder what 2007 Hamilton would say to 2017 Hamilton

[tomazy]

The problem comes, when one driver is faster and one is alower than drivers from the other team ....

That's the time you change the driver. May be someone else deserves that place. Classic example of Red Bull situation from 2016, when they removed Kvyat and replaced him with Verstappen. See what we got.

But what to do when at one race one driver is faster and at the second race the other driver is faster? By shearing data, both drivers can get the optimum out of ther car.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

I wonder what 2007 Hamilton would say to 2017 Hamilton

6 Poles Hamilton to 2 poles for Fernando.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

The problem comes, when one driver is faster and one is alower than drivers from the other team ....

That's the time you change the driver. May be someone else deserves that place. Classic example of Red Bull situation from 2016, when they removed Kvyat and replaced him with Verstappen. See what we got.

But what to do when at one race one driver is faster and at the second race the other driver is faster? By shearing data, both drivers can get the optimum out of ther car.

In that case, at the end of a season, it should be left for team to decide what position they want to give their drivers OR the individual rating of drivers should be eliminated completely and we should all be happy with team championship.

There is a reason why there is so much significance for Driver's championship and it is a fact that, it gets compromised when an inferior driver gets benefited by the superior team mate's performance data.

Top tier teams pay a hell lot of money to hire SO CALLED BEST DRIVERS. In such a scenario, drivers should be ready to compete without looking at team mate's data.

Look at this example. MotoGP champion Marquez made Vinales cancel race simulation in test

"It's hard to keep on pushing when you have him behind and you know he can study what you do.

If that is how one learns, that is great.

[turbof1]

You could argue Bottas is at an disadvantage compared to Hamilton: Hamilton is settled in at the team and has knowledge of all the setup variables and procedures. Bottas has not. Hamilton is also much more familiar with the suspension characteristics which are very unique to Mercedes.

I'd argue that if the difference is too big in the beginning, Mercedes gives SOME help and advice to Bottas. The team's primary goal is to get the cars on one and two. By managing and correctly limiting the stream of data from Hamilton to Bottas you can still keep Hamilton's advantage he has, while also giving Bottas the time to adapt and without compromising on team result.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

You could argue Bottas is at an disadvantage compared to Hamilton: Hamilton is settled in at the team and has knowledge of all the setup variables and procedures. Bottas has not. Hamilton is also much more familiar with the suspension characteristics which are very unique to Mercedes.

I'd argue that if the difference is too big in the beginning, Mercedes gives SOME help and advice to Bottas. The team's primary goal is to get the cars on one and two. By managing and correctly limiting the stream of data from Hamilton to Bottas you can still keep Hamilton's advantage he has, while also giving Bottas the time to adapt and without compromising on team result.

Well, for a driver joining a new team, situation wouldn't have been anymore tailor made than for 2017. With the whole car getting changed, it should ideally be a total reset. With new car expected to be faster by around 4 to 5 seconds, it is given that the car behaves differently on every single parameter known to the driver. Most importantly, both drivers would be having the same opportunity to figure out the characteristics of the new car with this winter testing. I am sure, for all the drivers who are having continuity with their respective teams, there is going to be a lot of UNLEARNING needed, before getting to grips with the new car.

It is not like a situation that was there with Verstappen last year. Going against a team mate that was driving an evolutionary car from 2014 and with the handicap of not having any time to acclimatize with the new car. In such a situation, it is natural that the driver need help and Verstappen kept copying Ricciardo's setup. By the end of the season, Ricciardo was being fed with the details from Verstappen's data. That is where good Drivers make a difference.

[turbof1]

You could argue Bottas is at an disadvantage compared to Hamilton: Hamilton is settled in at the team and has knowledge of all the setup variables and procedures. Bottas has not. Hamilton is also much more familiar with the suspension characteristics which are very unique to Mercedes.

I'd argue that if the difference is too big in the beginning, Mercedes gives SOME help and advice to Bottas. The team's primary goal is to get the cars on one and two. By managing and correctly limiting the stream of data from Hamilton to Bottas you can still keep Hamilton's advantage he has, while also giving Bottas the time to adapt and without compromising on team result.

Well, for a driver joining a new team, situation wouldn't have been anymore tailor made than for 2017. With the whole car getting changed, it should ideally be a total reset. With new car expected to be faster by around 4 to 5 seconds, it is given that the car behaves differently on every single parameter known to the driver. Most importantly, both drivers would be having the same opportunity to figure out the characteristics of the new car with this winter testing. I am sure, for all the drivers who are having continuity with their respective teams, there is going to be a lot of UNLEARNING needed, before getting to grips with the new car.

It is not like a situation that was there with Verstappen last year. Going against a team mate that was driving an evolutionary car from 2014 and with the handicap of not having any time to acclimatize with the new car. In such a situation, it is natural that the driver need help and Verstappen kept copying Ricciardo's setup. By the end of the season, Ricciardo was being fed with the details from Verstappen's data. That is where good Drivers make a difference.

I do not think it will be a full reset concerning handling. If the hydraulic solution is allowed this year, than that will be present and will have an impact on corner entry and stability. For instance it allows a much more agressive approach on kerbs. That's quite independent from the increase in speed. That is something Hamilton has experience with. Bottas has not.

However, this discussion might be redundant. Bottas could just as well adapt fast enough.

[Just_a_fan]

Bottas has one big advantage over Hamilton: everyone expects Hamilton to be faster and to be the top dog in the team. Hamilton might feel a bit of pressure to prove them all right. Bottas can just keep his head down and drive the car. Let the speed come to him as he settles in. If he finishes within 20-30 points of Hamilton at the end of the season, people will say "well done!". That opens the door to remaining at the team in following years.

If, however, Bottas turns up and tries to monster Hamilton from the first turn of the wheel, he will play in to Hamilton's hand by putting pressure on himself. If he tries to get that last tenth in Q3 in Oz and sticks it in the wall instead, well he'll be on the back foot straight away.

"Softly, softly, catchee monkey" as the old saying goes.

Of course, Bottas might turn up in Oz and be naturally 0.2s quicker than Hamilton. That will make for some fireworks...!

[ringo]

Hamilton's statement is more publicizing what Mercedes did for Nico. We have lots of evidence where Nico would feed of braking point, and brake balance data from Hamilton. This brought some of the qualifying sessions really close and somewhat assisted nico over his 3 years with Lewis. Nico has also gone on to say that he could talk to Bottas but he won't tell him Hamilton's secrets. This suggests that these secrets were provided upon request.
Lewis is now asking that the team doesn't do the same with Bottas and feed him every single data point on what the #44 car is doing on track.
It's a fair request, but i don't think the team will honour that. The FIA would have to make it illegal to do so, and even then that will be very difficult to enforce.

[ringo]

Of course, Bottas might turn up in Oz and be naturally 0.2s quicker than Hamilton. That will make for some fireworks...!

Based on the partnership with Massa, and then comparing how Alonso manhandled Massa, i don't really expect much surprises from Bottas. I think he will be good though. As good as Button, but not as cunning.

[dans79]

We have to remmember that F1 is a team sport.

Why do we have a WDC then, if it was purely a team sport it would be the WCC and that's it.

Personally I think the data sharing is one of the many downfalls of F1, it allows drivers who should probably be dropped, to just squeak by.

[tomazy]

F1 is about going around the circuit as fast as posible, if sharing data makes the car go faster around the track than this should be the part of the sport.

If a team builds a great car, a mediocre driver can win a WDC, and the best driver on the planet cant win the WDC in a bad car, so this is why I dont rate WDC as highly as WCC.

Driver is empoyed by the team, and he should do everything in his power to help them.

But this is only my opinion and I will stop arguing now becouse I know opinions don't really metter

[henry]

We have to remmember that F1 is a team sport.

Why do we have a WDC then, if it was purely a team sport it would be the WCC and that's it.

.

So people who don't understand have something to focus on?