Racist fans of F1 (and most other sports)

[ben_watkins]

I know what you're saying - My point was more of an ideal than something which is readily and easily implemented i guess..

I still believe that the officals at the circuit could have done more to stop the abuse. From what I've read the team had to complain before the circuit security took any action of any sort.

Let's all hope that the season is a cracker, as it was last year, and not spoilt by racists or off track politics.. [-o<

[axle]

C'mon, friends, this is a theme to tiptoe around, please. If I seem to try to find a reasonable explanation, is because I think this is normally the better way, in this and in most other bussiness.

Tip toeing around the issue is how Spain got into this sh1t. If it was cracked down on like it should be, as it's abhorant, then the morons wouldn't do it.

There is NO excuse. Whoever resorts to using racially motivated slurs should be banned for life from all sparting events...whatever their creed or colour. (For the hard of reading that means not just the Spanish but all racist fans).

The people too should make it known that it's not to be tolerated...people soon shut up when they know they are in a minority.

[Carlos]

I think Ciro's point is to look below the surface, not to believe in every mission statement you read, that every institution, country and culture has human failings and share many problems. He often points to the elephant no one mentions. Also that life is not what it seems but has many layers.

[Ciro Pabón]

Oh, the irony.

Because of a bunch of morons claiming they're better than others, because of their skin colour or nationality, the remedy is to exclude a nation.

Racism is based on stereotypes, the same stereotypes that can take you to exclude all spaniards from racing based on... their nationality. This, spaniards have to take after seeing how their champion was treated at McLaren: as a scapegoat.

This is (in my humble opinion) another case of McLaren dumping its problems in one of its drivers. Point in case:

This is what we read in the press that was said at Hungary:

"Don't ever f***ing do that to me again," Hamilton was reported to have shouted to Dennis as he crossed the finish line. Dennis was then alleged to have replied: "Don't ever f***ing speak to me like that again!" At this point, Hamilton was supposed to have uttered the words: "Go f***ing swivel!"

This is the true conversation (or so says the Independent):

As he drove across the line, Hamilton, adopting an ironic tone, said: "Thank you, guys. Thank you, that was great." Dennis then replied: "That shows what happens when you don't f***ing do what you're told!" The infamous comment about "swivelling" was never uttered by Hamilton.

http://www.independent.ie/sport/motor-s ... 80681.html

Now, it's sad to see a just protest against McLaren (and I don't think I'm gonna change that point of view) to be downwashed because of some stupid fans calling someone black.

I swear to the gods of F1Technical (Mercury and Taraxippus, I imagine) this is my final comment on this thorny issue...

[ben_watkins]

I swear to the gods of F1Technical (Mercury and Taraxippus, I imagine) this is my final comment on this thorny issue...

[-o<

Thank god for that, as you were making a bit of a dick of yourself, imho, digging a massive hole and looking like you weren't going to stop!

Seriously - that "quote" you had from Hamilton, was not a quote - He never said it! It was all a bunch of BS made up by some hack.. It was also completely off topic. The thread is about racist comments/actions by the idiots over the weekend and other sporting racism.

I think anyone in their right mind will denounce the behaviour of the racists at the test this weekend including any such behaviour in the future - and won't try and excuse it or find a counter argument. You know why? Cause the ain't any! Period!

[P_O_L]

After reading this thread, id like to make a contribution.

While i dont endorse racistical abuse towards anyone, we should regard the facts, those are;

1. Lewis has repeatedly stated in public he doesnt like alonso, he wants alonso out of the team, he thinks he isnt being treated fairly, alonso is a bad person/driver/champion/team player.

2. The majority of the banners around the barcelona test where aimed most at what lewis said and also aimed at mclaren. Just a few of them explicitly went overboard and called him bad racisticall names.

3. therefore I find it a tad too far to go and say entire of Spain is racistical. Especially the British press seemed to have forgotten what their own fellow citiziens have done.

4. For instance the Hatton fight, where all the british in the public booed and jeered through the national anthem of home hero mayweather. Or the fact the british press reffered to the upcoming german - english football game in 96 as "" the krauts are coming". The fact that at every big football cup played, hosting countries rather see the end of the British drunk and fight loving majority.

5. The non-british press empahsises that the rivalry between alonso and lewis was, according to alonso, down to mclaren favouring lewis. While the brit press says alonso demanded special rights. Judging from dennis aying:"we were racing efrnando, not kimi"" the 2nd last arce weve gotta believe alonsos perspective more.

So while the racist taunts are very unwanted, Lewis should learn that what goes around, comes around. Never in my life have ive seen F1 fans be so angry towards a team and a driver.

[modbaraban]

Some of the members dissapointed me really.

It is time this thread being closed.

[manchild]

So while the racist taunts are very unwanted, Lewis should learn that what goes around, comes around. Never in my life have ive seen F1 fans be so angry towards a team and a driver.

Welcome to the forum. With all respect I could accept that if you started watching F1 in 2007.

Schuey 1994 Australian GP, Schuey 1997 European GP, Schuey 2006 Monaco.

Alonso fans mad at Hamilton? That's nothing relative to it.

Even Tiffosi were mad at Schuey in 1997 including FIAT owners and Italian and German press. British press and F1 fans worldwide never accepted that title of his, 1997 was outrageous asking for lifetime ban as repeated crime that went unpunished at first. 2006 Monaco was pathetically low, Keke Rosberg said "Schumacher is a cheap cheat". You never heard that said by an F1 legend to any F1 driver before.

[P_O_L]

So while the racist taunts are very unwanted, Lewis should learn that what goes around, comes around. Never in my life have ive seen F1 fans be so angry towards a team and a driver.

Welcome to the forum. With all respect I could accept that if you started watching F1 in 2007.

Schuey 1994 Australian GP, Schuey 1997 European GP, Schuey 2006 Monaco.

Alonso fans mad at Hamilton? That's nothing relative to it.

Even Tiffosi were mad at Schuey in 1997 including FIAT owners and Italian and German press. British press and F1 fans worldwide never accepted that title of his, 1997 was outrageous asking for lifetime ban as repeated crime that went unpunished at first. 2006 Monaco was pathetically low, Keke Rosberg said "Schumacher is a cheap cheat". You never heard that said by an F1 legend to any F1 driver before.

You are right. I shouldv said recent history. Earlier it was Melbourne 1998, the opening rae of the season, where fans, even the British, where livid over Mclarens team orders. The drivers where booed of the stage. People called their betting agencies to get their wages on a DC win back. Jacky Stewart, Nigel Roebuck and the rest of the britpress went at great lenghts to defend mclarens actions, saying Mclarens only obligation was to win that race as''consumatly as possible"".

Then we had Austria 2002, where Todt asked rubens to set aside in race 6 of the championship. Again drivers being booed on the podium allthough much less than Melbouirne 1998. Strangely enough the britpress was suddenly all against Ferrari and their team orders. 180 degree turn on their stance from 1998, where mclaren did exactly the same albeit in race 1 of the season, rather than race 6 where shumi was already some 36 points ahead of rubens.

Last weekend though, the banners reffered to what lewis was 'hablaing'' and if you recollect all those events, they might have a point. ALonso in the meantime, has chosen to stay silent as much as possible on all matters. The britpress may cry that its outrageous but i find it a tad over the top if you consider all the facts.

Again, racistical abuse should have no place in F1 or any other sport, but lets not pretend Lewis and Mclaren are holier than though. They where the target of much banner abuse in the last 2 races of 2007 and ive no doubt that will continue.
I hope, without remarks towards racism.

[manchild]

Alonso and Hamilton should have sorted out their problems like "real men"



[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3SXbGDcMeo8[/youtube]

[johny]

trying to hit someone in the face with a helmet on is priceless.

p.s. Maybe an Alonso vs Piquet jr

[AeroGT3]

Interesting that the FIA is taking such a hard line stance against this, inclduingn Mosley, especially considering it's constantly posted here that Max "is a racist" who "hates Hamilton because he's black," etc.

His actions aren't consistent with some people's words. Hmmm . . . . which to believe . . .

[Principessa]

Sorry to say so but the British press is also spreading preconceptions not towards the black people among us, but towards the Spanish people:
The Independent wrote: "It's pretty clear that they (the Spanish) are decades behind Britain"
Daily Telegraph: “There is something seriously wrong with their authorities who have not taught the masses that such behaviour is unacceptable. This may be because the authorities do not see such behaviour as unacceptable.”

So this is what the British newspapers call fair and objective journalism??? They are acting like everybody in Spain thinks the same way as maybe 100 people that were visiting the test session (among 55.000) are thinking. The Spanish newspapers reported on this with fairness as they reported that what happened at Catalunya was a disgrace for Spain and than 'The Sun' dares to write: "The Spanish media all but ignored the controversy over Hamilton's treatment in Barcelona."

I think the words of the columnist of the Spanish newspaper 'Dario AS' says it like it is: “Generalisation is a dangerous habit, which often leads to wrong conclusions and is almost always unfair. Especially because an uncontrolled individual can cause tremendous prejudice against a whole group, as we are used to seeing at many sporting events.”

[nae]

it is indeed a thorny issue this racism lark

but it is generally accepted that if you use it as a means to belittle another the rest of your argument is also flawed
and certainly wont be listened to, wither the rest of your argument is reasoned or not.

witty banners have been a part of F1 for years but there is no place for overt racism in any sport

Mosley may or may not be a practising racist but is duty bound to clamp down on 'this sort of thing' he may for all i know only shop in shops owned by white males or never employ a non white directly but that is a personal thing and not how one runs a sport (i seriously cant believe that i am defending mad max here)

[nae]

taking these 2 quote as they stand alone

The Independent wrote: "It's pretty clear that they (the Spanish) are decades behind Britain"

Daily Telegraph: “There is something seriously wrong with their authorities who have not taught the masses that such behaviour is unacceptable. This may be because the authorities do not see such behaviour as unacceptable.”

in Britain the perpetrator(s) would have had some form of charge brought against them and the authorities would have been pro active not just to nip it in the bud but to be seen to serve some justice thereby distancing themselves from the possible accusations brought in these quotes.

britian went through bananas at football matches and other such unsavioury activity's (some 10 years ago as it happens) and came out the other side with a much stronger approach to 'this sort of thing'*

I dont overly like defending the british gutter press but in this case both of these quotes , like it or not, have some merit when looking at british history )in that self important way the british press do).


* 'this sort of thing' is taken from father ted where in one show they had a banner that stated

down with this sort of thing