Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Santozini]

Genuine question...was Honda ever capable to running any of their PUs at an "non-detuned" mode?

[Jef Patat]

Those circumstances (G forces) simply can't be simulated, not even on the best dyno. But they can be predicted. Although it's possible they are trying something new...

I wonder to what extent this is true. For impulse forces I can agree, although I do not know to what level. But I have the impression the oil tank is not functioning correctly due to cornering forces, those should be simulatable at the dyno/sim.

[Thunder]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

[glenntws]

Genuine question...was Honda ever capable to running any of their PUs at an "non-detuned" mode?

yes, the 2016 PU was safely running with full power.

[-wkst-]

https://twitter.com/tgruener/status/836562446693322752

looks like heads are about to roll

Don't trust in that. When reading the article, there is no one single evidence of the lack of power. The run the engine detuned, nothing more.

Why the hell should the bring a new engine that it worse than the old one?! The actual one runs detuned, nothing more. The guys over at AMuS give us sooo much Information (according toi them the new Problem is in a new area) and they say they get the information directly from the Honda guys.

These guys know nothing more than anyone else and the things they say are nothing more than speculations.

Who reported about the oil tank problem yesterday? AMuS.

They have their sources.

[ojlopez]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

I think that this "problem" was nothing but a big smoke screen so they can test some more components before homologating.

[glenntws]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

I think that this "problem" was nothing but a big smoke screen so they can test some more components before homologating.

Interesting idea. It seems unlikely but when we see that someone like Hasegawa (who often doesn't make to big promises and sticks to realtiy) seems very confident and heppy when talking about the engine

What also is interesting: If there would be a problem with the oil tank and it would be torn appart, why is there no signs of smoke, leaking oil or anything like that. The engine just gets turned off, or they say they lost power but there is no evidence for that. If the engine would loose a big amount of power, this would be directly linked to the ICE, something like a broken head or some part of the cranktrain.

Something definetly isn't right with all those speculations I think. They have something they want to somehow hide or test in different variants....

[mclaren111]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

I think that this "problem" was nothing but a big smoke screen so they can test some more components before homologating.

Why ??? Token system has been removed !!! They can more or less change 80% of engine every race !!

Only problem is after 4 PU's per driver there is a penalty !!

[ziggy]

Those circumstances (G forces) simply can't be simulated, not even on the best dyno. But they can be predicted. Although it's possible they are trying something new...

I wonder to what extent this is true. For impulse forces I can agree, although I do not know to what level. But I have the impression the oil tank is not functioning correctly due to cornering forces, those should be simulatable at the dyno.

You can beleive it is true. Although I can't say what percent is simulable, cornering G forces are not (yet) simulable. Ex. if you want to simulate 4G trough a corner for let's say 5 seconds, you need to accelerate the whole car with 4G for 5 seconds. You would need a dyno size of a football field if not bigger. Chassis tensions as well as curbs and vibrations can be simulated perfectly, but not full G forces, and the fluids simulations are a pain in the arse.

[andone89]

Those circumstances (G forces) simply can't be simulated, not even on the best dyno. But they can be predicted. Although it's possible they are trying something new...

I wonder to what extent this is true. For impulse forces I can agree, although I do not know to what level. But I have the impression the oil tank is not functioning correctly due to cornering forces, those should be simulatable at the dyno.

You can beleive it is true. Although I can't say what percent is simulable, cornering G forces are not (yet) simulable. Ex. if you want to simulate 4G trough a corner for let's say 5 seconds, you need to accelerate the whole car with 4G for 5 seconds. You would need a dyno size of a football field if not bigger. Chassis tensions as well as curbs and vibrations can be simulated perfectly, but not full G forces, and the fluids simulations are a pain in the arse.

I reckon one could put a engine in some sort of a circular G maker that the fighter pilots train their bodies on. Although fuel and wires etc would become an issue, unless they are all mounted on the engine like they would be in a finished car. Just an idea

[3jawchuck]

Well they have 2 Years of On Track experience. They should now how to Baffle their Oiltank. Their Engine worked during heavy breaking for the last 2 Years.....

I think that this "problem" was nothing but a big smoke screen so they can test some more components before homologating.

snip

What also is interesting: If there would be a problem with the oil tank and it would be torn appart, why is there no signs of smoke, leaking oil or anything like that. The engine just gets turned off, or they say they lost power but there is no evidence for that. If the engine would loose a big amount of power, this would be directly linked to the ICE, something like a broken head or some part of the cranktrain.

snip

If the computer detected oil delivery problems then maybe it goes into a sort of limp mode before anything catastrophic occurs. By all accounts the oil tank isn't leaking, it's just not dealing with oil movement under g loading very well.

[glenntws]

I think that this "problem" was nothing but a big smoke screen so they can test some more components before homologating.

snip

What also is interesting: If there would be a problem with the oil tank and it would be torn appart, why is there no signs of smoke, leaking oil or anything like that. The engine just gets turned off, or they say they lost power but there is no evidence for that. If the engine would loose a big amount of power, this would be directly linked to the ICE, something like a broken head or some part of the cranktrain.

snip

If the computer detected oil delivery problems then maybe it goes into a sort of limp mode before anything catastrophic occurs. By all accounts the oil tank isn't leaking, it's just not dealing with oil movement under g loading very well.

That might be the case, but it doesn't fit to the speculations going around. Everybody is talking on a wrong design and that the oil tank needs to be reinforced. If oil delivery would be a problem, you don't reinforce the tank to make it stronger.

That's exactly what I mean. All the speculations are not fitting together.

[3jawchuck]

snip

What also is interesting: If there would be a problem with the oil tank and it would be torn appart, why is there no signs of smoke, leaking oil or anything like that. The engine just gets turned off, or they say they lost power but there is no evidence for that. If the engine would loose a big amount of power, this would be directly linked to the ICE, something like a broken head or some part of the cranktrain.

snip

If the computer detected oil delivery problems then maybe it goes into a sort of limp mode before anything catastrophic occurs. By all accounts the oil tank isn't leaking, it's just not dealing with oil movement under g loading very well.

That might be the case, but it doesn't fit to the speculations going around. Everybody is talking on a wrong design and that the oil tank needs to be reinforced. If oil delivery would be a problem, you don't reinforce the tank to make it stronger.

That's exactly what I mean. All the speculations are not fitting together.

Everything I have heard is regarding pickup problems, I've not heard anything about weakness or leaks. That said, real life gets in the way of me doing much of my own reading on this matter.

[Sasha]

Oil pick up problem.(went too radical with design,little less with redesign)

[glenntws]

Oil pick up problem.(went too radical with design,little less with redesign)

Ok. Does the redesign affect the PU positioning in Chassis? Is any other PU-geometry affected by that? When will the fix be ready, maybe already tomorrow?

Sorry for this many questions Sasha