2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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The BIG difference this year is there is no token system, in 2014 and 2015 they were EXTREMELY limited in what they could change. It was basically wait for next year..

if they don't mind the penalties they can have as many PU as they like. The differences from one PU to the next can be what ever they want. So from that stand point I think it is easier to right the ship this year. This is why I'm not worried.

max_speed
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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i do not know how much truth in this..but things looking quite gloomy

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5966 ... backwards/

damager21
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Yesterday was another filming day. Likely that they tested the new engine spec?

In the meanwhile, Honda is looking at hiring for ESS

http://www.racestaff.com/job/senior-des ... f1-584.htm

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Phil
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PhillipM wrote:I'm not attributing it to one component, I'm keeping the relevance to the discussion at hand, they have the best power unit on the grid, still.

Mclaren had the customer version of that power unit. They weren't happy with it.
Ergo, the only way up from there is to beat Merc at their own game. Which when, as you point out, they've had so much time and tests to develop it, means that you need to take risks to try to leapfrog them. Otherwise there was absolutely no point in Honda coming into the sport. It IS all or nothing.
As far as i remember, it wasnt that they werent happy with it - but Ron believed that in this new era of Formula 1 that no customer team would ever win and that an exclusive engine partnership was the way forward. The Honda partnership was forming way before that Mercedes PU ever got put into that McLaren.

I think the reasons for McLaren wanting to go with Honda are way more complex here. The reasons probably go back to 2010 when Mercedes entered as their own factory team and on a year to year basis, started to increase and become more competitive. More over, the resources Mercedes put into their team were massive. They also started luring technical staff from other teams too.

Again, i'm not suggesting that the Honda partnership was a failure. I'm arguing that the gambling all or nothing is worthless if you keep on falling short. At this rate, evidently, both Ferrari and Renault are in a better position to compete with Mercedes with more conservative approaches that have enabled them to reliably better their engines while crucially also giving the chassis team a steady predictable component to work with. Meanwhile, McLaren has been playing catch up as backmarkers (2015) and the midfield (2016) which is decreasing their image. They are losing sponsorship and therefore money. More over, the partnership behind the curtains is also becoming more explosive as they probably question the competence and ability of their engine partner. Their star driver isnt happy, the stakes rising.

You tell me, what will happen if this year turns out like 2016 again? Or worse, like 2015?

Meanwhile, while you are pointing out how Mercedes gambled all or nothing, dont forget how methodical this team was increasing in strength before 2014. The PU is a huge component, but not the only one. It took a damn good chassis, aero and also suspension to tick all the boxes. They studied the tires to perfection. It didnt happen all in a day or a year, which is the point i am making here. Ergo, it wasnt ever all or nothing. It was carefully planed and executed over multiple years, starting in 2010.
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PhillipM
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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If it turns out like 2016 again I think they'll be pretty happy, as it means they'll be catching up with the pack in front, and with no token system risky choices can be reverted instead of locked in.

the EDGE
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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PhillipM wrote:If it turns out like 2016 again I think they'll be pretty happy, as it means they'll be catching up with the pack in front, and with no token system risky choices can be reverted instead of locked in.
Agreed, no matter how many times they have to start at the back of the grid for an engine change, next year their aim must be continual progression of the engine until they can consistently fight for podiums at the very least least. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain from this. There's no point fighting for 1 or 2 points if there's a chance that by the end of the season you could be scoring 10 or 15 at a time

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RS200E
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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I think they will end 2017 better than 2016 and we will be more positive for 2018 and looking back on these years as the dark years .

But I don't think they will necessarily catch up on the top 3 this year, just a bit more ahead of Force India and Williams (on average late this season).
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

the EDGE
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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According to McLaren's Twitter feed they had another filming day yesterday, has anyone heard how this went?

Maybe they wanted to put the Melbourne spec engine through its paces before the 2nd test

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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max_speed wrote:i do not know how much truth in this..but things looking quite gloomy

http://gptoday.com/full_story/view/5966 ... backwards/
that guy can't even get the years right!

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RS200E
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Such a gloomy and pessimistic article. I could hear a violin playing in the background.
The power of Red Bull Powertrains!

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Everyone one will be in a good mood in the garage...They have Daft Punk. Their rhythm will help with the changing tires!

EB must have got them!

Image

Alonsofor2017
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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the EDGE wrote:
PhillipM wrote:If it turns out like 2016 again I think they'll be pretty happy, as it means they'll be catching up with the pack in front, and with no token system risky choices can be reverted instead of locked in.
Agreed, no matter how many times they have to start at the back of the grid for an engine change, next year their aim must be continual progression of the engine until they can consistently fight for podiums at the very least least. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain from this. There's no point fighting for 1 or 2 points if there's a chance that by the end of the season you could be scoring 10 or 15 at a time
Loads of people were saying this in 2015. Didn't really work out

makecry
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Alonsofor2017 wrote:
the EDGE wrote:
PhillipM wrote:If it turns out like 2016 again I think they'll be pretty happy, as it means they'll be catching up with the pack in front, and with no token system risky choices can be reverted instead of locked in.
Agreed, no matter how many times they have to start at the back of the grid for an engine change, next year their aim must be continual progression of the engine until they can consistently fight for podiums at the very least least. They have nothing to loose and everything to gain from this. There's no point fighting for 1 or 2 points if there's a chance that by the end of the season you could be scoring 10 or 15 at a time
Loads of people were saying this in 2015. Didn't really work out

2015 had token system. 2017 doesn't. They can essentially bring an update every race if they don't mind taking penalties. 2015 was when they were limited by a limited set of tokens so had to select what upgrade they want very wisely.

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nevill3
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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My heart has just been broken by a rumor from a source that I have always trusted.......

Martin Brundle has said that he has heard that McLaren have a serious issue and it may need a redesign....

Video here comment is at 13.40

https://www.facebook.com/skysportsf1/vi ... 334016659/
Sent from my Commodore PET in 1978

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SR71
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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