2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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fellowhoodlums
fellowhoodlums
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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mclaren111 wrote:Early days yet people !!

Yes we start on our backfoot as the saying goes, but there is no reason to believe that Honda can not turn things around with free development.

Aero development suffers a little as well, but can still be done at first couple of races and by Europe we can be where we wanted to be.

Go McLaren & Honda !!!
Tokens may have gone but you still are limited in terms of number of componants you can use so lack of reliability will be punished as will frequent evolutions of parts for performance.

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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fellowhoodlums wrote:
mclaren111 wrote:Early days yet people !!

Yes we start on our backfoot as the saying goes, but there is no reason to believe that Honda can not turn things around with free development.

Aero development suffers a little as well, but can still be done at first couple of races and by Europe we can be where we wanted to be.

Go McLaren & Honda !!!
Tokens may have gone but you still are limited in terms of number of componants you can use so lack of reliability will be punished as will frequent evolutions of parts for performance.

Right, they can't push any further than to the back. Once you're there, they can give 20 more place penalties but you're still starting from the same place.

isullivan
isullivan
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Both Mclaren and Honda's guys are off twitter, I can only assume they are helping with the engine slap :lol:

Sevach
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Maybe Mclaren should think about running with this car...

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mclaren111
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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he's back out

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Also Hasegawa said at the end of testing last week that the changes to the PU were so profound this year that they were kind of expecting these types of issues.

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diffuser
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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mclaren111 wrote:he's back out

Wow and over an hour earlier than expected.

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mclaren111
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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Soon they will be replacing an engine quicker than doing a pit stop :lol: :lol: :lol:

EB's next nightmare :lol: :lol: :lol:

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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a1b2i3r45 wrote:I think a better example for Honda to follow should be Ferrari rather than Merc; considering the way Ferrari turned around from 2014 pu in such a short time and introduced different and innovative solutions with such impeccable reliability.
+1.

2014´s engine was small and lacked strenght, next season they came with a tremendously improved PU. Honda should learn something from them.

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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What's to learn from Ferrari? Building a car that's fast but just not good enough to win? Constant threat of being fired by a man who does not have anything to do with the technical aspects of the car? Maybe...
Saishū kōnā

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Vasconia
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:What's to learn from Ferrari? Building a car that's fast but just not good enough to win? Constant threat of being fired by a man who does not have anything to do with the technical aspects of the car? Maybe...
Err at least how to clearly improve a mediocre engine , closing the gap enough to make posible(or at least clearly helping) that an average car in 2014 could be the second best in 2015.

Much more than what Honda has done.

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Phil
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:What's to learn from Ferrari? Building a car that's fast but just not good enough to win? Constant threat of being fired by a man who does not have anything to do with the technical aspects of the car? Maybe...
I wouldn't take Ferrari as a benchmark. I'd take RedBull/Renault. Not a works/factory-team, so some of the inherent challenges are the same: Renault is building an engine according to their own beliefs and specs (e.g. that's why they have become a factory-team) and RedBull has to make due with that.

I also think RedBull have faired fairly well these last few years when they weren't winning. Yes, they did point a lot of fingers at Renault (and generally there was a lot of frustration towards the rules), but at the same time, they also put their head down and focused on what they did best: chassis/aero. 6 wins in the last 3 seasons ain't that bad (even if some of those wins came off the faults of Merceds): They won when others didn't (Ferrari/Williams etc).
Not for nothing, Rosberg's Championship is the only thing that lends credibility to Hamilton's recent success. Otherwise, he'd just be the guy who's had the best car. — bhall II
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santos
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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godlameroso wrote:What's to learn from Ferrari? Building a car that's fast but just not good enough to win? Constant threat of being fired by a man who does not have anything to do with the technical aspects of the car? Maybe...
At the moment there is a lot they can learn. At least how to build a car that finish races. Before thinking about winning they have to built something that is reliable.

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proteus
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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a1b2i3r45 wrote:I think a better example for Honda to follow should be Ferrari rather than Merc; considering the way Ferrari turned around from 2014 pu in such a short time and introduced different and innovative solutions with such impeccable reliability.
In case of Ferrari, they did not have had such a bad engine to start with, the only problems were the layout of specific parts. Otherwise they had a stable platform, better than Renault and much much better of what Honda introduced in 2015. All they needed to do was to relocate those components to make the weight distribution and effectivness to better levels.

Honda on the other hand started with too small turbo and in my opinion overcomplexed layout which was prone to failure right from the start with them knowing it, and thinking they can fix it. 15 was a disaster, there came 16 and they enlarged the turbo and changed few components, but the engine was still underpowered and even though more reliable still fragile. Here is a 17 season and aparently the engine again has not enough power and reliability is frankly catastrophic.

What it looks like to me is that every separate engine department in Honda is pulling in its way, ignoring what and how the department next door designed a part of the engine and what they need to consider to act in harmony with it. Japanese are very hardcore workers with high personal responsability, effectivness and intelect, but they lack in terms of international collaboration, many times thinking only by themself and ignoring opinions of the outsiders. Senna himself in the golden age of Mcl/Honda said that japanese engineers many times do exactly opposite what u tell them to do. And that may be a huge problem.
If i would get the money to start my own F1 team, i would revive Arrows

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godlameroso
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Re: 2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

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It seems that people are simply passing judgment reading far too much into lap times. 77 laps of running for Vandoorne, not a bad way to finish.
Saishū kōnā