Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[dren]

James Allen is stating the Honda unit isn't yet making more power than last year's unit (2016), while the other manufacturers have gained 25-35hp.

[ripper]

Is he referring to test or AUS spec?

[ollandos]

sound like all problems have the same mother ...the Cylinder Head ....if vibration rumors are true its very high possible to need redesing engine hardware parts ...and first of all the engine head ...but i have question this is a major problem and impossible for me do not see this on dyno test....probably miss junge they think its maping settings issue for some time maybe until now...look like very very bad news for honda if i am correct i hope no [-o< [-o< ...the season its all over before the start ...looks like same year like 2015

[BosF1]

I made a quick translation of the AMuS article:

Honda in the dark
The second week of testing started again with engine problems for McLaren-Honda. Two of the problems were identical to one they suffered last week. Apparently, Honda hasn’t found a solution.


McLaren is stuck in the Honda trap. At the start of the second week of testing, the McLaren with number 2 came into the box after 34 laps – and was not seen for four hours. Quickly the word came out that they were suffering from engine related problems, again. Officially, the team spoke of an electrical issue. In reality, it was an engine failure.

In a statement, Eric Bouillier made clear that two problems identical to one of last week surfaced. He would not further specify the problems: “Ask Honda.” Honda wanted to determine the cause of the engine failure on day 2 of testing quickly, but rumors are that the Japanese still haven’t found the answers.

With other (teething) problems Honda is also still in the dark. Honda chief Hawagawa has spent most of his time on the phone. Tokio awaits another night shift. Wisely, Honda brought three V6-Turbo’s to Barcelona this time. Two of those were deployed on the first day. Since there are doubts that McLaren will get sufficient laps with this engine pool, a fourth PU will be delivered on Thursday.

The ball is in Honda’s court
Due to the unsolved problems, Honda has fitted a spec-1 PU into the car. The initial plan of Honda was to fit the Melbourne-spec in the car in the second week of testing. Bouillier is obviously attempting to be optimistic. “We have to trust Honda and belief they are doing a good job. The ball is in Honda’s court. I am confident, that most problems will be solved with the second specification.”

What McLaren can’t say, but what has been the word in the paddock, is that the Honda PU does not have more power than their 2015 PU, when running. And that one already fell 100bhp short of their competitors. The drivability (of the PU, BosF1) and the tuning of the electrical systems are also work in progress.

Suspected is that a large part of the problems can be traced back to the ICE. The so-called pre-chamber ignition is accompanied with more vibrations and higher temperatures. The rest of the PU suffers from this. Renault also has these problems, but they understand the problems better.

McLaren collects data and aims at simulations
McLaren is subject to the problems of its PU-supplier. “We would like to know how good our car actually is,” say engineers. Sensible statements are hard to make based on the few laps they ran. “At the moment, we can only collect data and compare it to the data from the wind tunnel or the simulator”, says Bouillier. That is clearly the case. Vandoornes lap time of 1:22,698 was not a bad lap time under the circumstances.

Are you worried, mister Bouillier? “It is still within limits”, says he bravely. “We live upon calculations and have to postpone the development a little bit.” Bouillier admits that he expects a difficult first quarter of the season. “We can’t make any mistakes now.”

He continues: “Every lap we don’t drive is a loss. The base of our car is good. It responds to all changes in a logical way. The drivers are happy. But when you can’t drive on the limit and you miss 18 km/h on the straight, the tyre and brake temperatures aren’t in the window. Luckily, the tools today are that good that we still can make progress with the data of lower speeds. Still, when you are on the limit, different factors come into play, which we can’t see now.”

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 40526.html

[fellowhoodlums]

Any thoughts on fix for the vibration?

[Chicane]

Team Report.

Interesting that EB says that they will run Melbourne spec power unit later this week

http://www.mclaren.com/formula1/2017/pr ... t-2-day-1/

[namao]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 5228958720

[makecry]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 5228958720

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they are running detuned for reliability.

[namao]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 5228958720

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they are running detuned for reliability.

Honda is not running detuned.

[makecry]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 5228958720

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they are running detuned for reliability.

Honda is not running detuned.

Oh it is. There is no way they can risk running full power. They wont do that till last day or if they do it before that it will be just in the last hour. They can't afford running it at full power and risk blowing it up.

You need to realize, NO ONE is running anything at full power.

[kasio]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 5228958720

It doesn't take a rocket scientist to know they are running detuned for reliability.

Honda is not running detuned.

rocketscientist.

[Shafto]

Oh it is. There is no way they can risk running full power. They wont do that till last day or if they do it before that it will be just in the last hour. They can't afford running it at full power and risk blowing it up.

You need to realize, NO ONE is running anything at full power.

So you know, for a fact, that NO ONE has tested full power map settings? I understand that the mere arm chair specialists that we are enjoy putting our 2 cents in, but we should not make up 'facts'.

[Craigy]

Honda always overdone it(never took it to the edge until they had too to compete) with their engines.

The other problem that seems to have blighted Honda engines in the past was that they didn't pay as much attention to vibration as the other manufacturers.

I really hope I was wrong when I wrote this back in November last year.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Any sources on the vibration issues related to their combustion strategy ?

I've seen in the past problems with high-ish frequencies in the cylinder pressure traces exciting torsional harmonics.
Interestingly, nowadays the general practice seems to be either using pressure traces from engine cycle simulations or measured traces averaged over multiple cycles or over multiple cylinders which has the effect of filtering high frequency content.

Given new technologies such as TJI and the fact that the engines run on the edge of knock (and beyond) I would not be surprised if such issues were overlooked.

[taperoo2k]

Oh it is. There is no way they can risk running full power. They wont do that till last day or if they do it before that it will be just in the last hour. They can't afford running it at full power and risk blowing it up.

You need to realize, NO ONE is running anything at full power.

So you know, for a fact, that NO ONE has tested full power map settings? I understand that the mere arm chair specialists that we are enjoy putting our 2 cents in, but we should not make up 'facts'.

We simply do not know what maps and fuel loads teams are running. Most often, teams will hold back performance until it actually matters - Qualifying and the Race. That's another thing Honda will be behind on - Mapping the ICE and other PU parts.

As for Honda current woes ? If they overlooked vibrations in the combustion process ? Then that's an elementary mistake on Honda's part and one they should have been keeping a look out for. However all we have are rumours so all we can do is speculate. Whenever the Race Spec PU makes it debut on track, then we'll glean a little bit more info.