Renault Sport Racing and McLaren Racing are pleased to announce they have agreed an engine supply partnership for the 2018, 2019 and 2020 seasons. The deal will see Renault Sport Racing supply McLaren with Formula 1 power units, while also establishing a close working relationship with McLaren’s engineers and technicians.
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Of yourse that's nothing that is fixed in a Week (the valvetrain issue that is). Point is that PU shouldn't even have turned up at pre season testing in such an obviously unfinished state. such problems should be fixed over the Winter if you don't want to play catch up all season, wich is exactly what will happen....
Like Wazari wrote in the PU Thread, they don't know when to stop researching and to actually begin testing.
Anf this is all just Honda, no one is even talking about all the Testing lost for McLaren.
Thunders wrote:Of yourse that's nothing that is fixed in a Week (the valvetrain issue that is). Point is that PU shouldn't even have turned up at pre season testing in such an obviously unfinished state. such problems should be fixed over the Winter if you don't want to play catch up all season, wich is exactly what will happen....
I agree 100%. Just pointing out that lack of brainpower is maybe the wrong phrasing - Leadership in this form of engine R&D or better processes is what they seem to lack (Maybe Ilmor can help????)
*edit
From Brawn's interview they aren't shy to give the engineers the physical resources they need either.
Last edited by ncassi22 on 09 Mar 2017, 21:26, edited 2 times in total.
Thunders wrote:Of yourse that's nothing that is fixed in a Week (the valvetrain issue that is). Point is that PU shouldn't even have turned up at pre season testing in such an obviously unfinished state. such problems should be fixed over the Winter if you don't want to play catch up all season, wich is exactly what will happen....
I agree 100%. Just pointing out that lack of brainpower is maybe the wrong phrasing - Leadership in this form of engine R&D or better processes is what they seem to lack (Maybe Ilmor can help????)
Thunders wrote:Of yourse that's nothing that is fixed in a Week (the valvetrain issue that is). Point is that PU shouldn't even have turned up at pre season testing in such an obviously unfinished state. such problems should be fixed over the Winter if you don't want to play catch up all season, wich is exactly what will happen....
I agree 100%. Just pointing out that lack of brainpower is maybe the wrong phrasing - Leadership in this form of engine R&D or better processes is what they seem to lack (Maybe Ilmor can help????)
Agreed, my phrasing was a little off.
Back to back test weeks didn't help either. A 1 week gap between tests would have helped. So would a 3ird week of testing.
I don't think another team would have helped considering the issues they've had.
Looks like Australia will be the 3ird testing week.
ncassi22 wrote:
I agree 100%. Just pointing out that lack of brainpower is maybe the wrong phrasing - Leadership in this form of engine R&D or better processes is what they seem to lack (Maybe Ilmor can help????)
Agreed, my phrasing was a little off.
Back to back test weeks didn't help either. A 1 week gap between tests would have helped. So would a 3ird week of testing.
I don't think another team would have helped considering the issues they've had.
Looks like Australia will be the 3ird testing week.
Except a race weekend isn't anywhere near long as 4 days of testing
Thunders wrote:Yes the other PU Manufacturers have hab more Time developing these PU's, but there comes a Time when that excuse just doesn't cut it anymore. And to me we're right at the brink of that. If Honda would throw everything they got at this PU we wouldn't have had the Day 1 Oil Tank Issue. That was borderline unprofessional. I just get the Feeling reading some Interviews with Hasegawa that either they don't have the budget to do things right, they still underestimate the Challenge these PU's pose or they just lack in Brainpowerand Equipment to get their Vision on the Track.
No Proof whatsoever, just a feeling.
They will get it right someday, but anything beyond the start of the European Leg to get to Merc 2016 level and be reliable would be hard to swallow. And in F1 Terms that's bad.
EB made a good point that Honda had been out of Formula 1 for over five years before they even begun conceptualizing the PU. Very tough no matter who you are. Even Porsche, BMW and Audi would find a stiff challenge I'm sure.
"It's always important to do long runs because there's many things you discover by completing a lot of consecutive laps.
"Now there's problems in the car that we haven't exactly discovered yet. A lot of our runs have been broken up.
"We don't know exactly how the temperatures will evolve over 50 laps or so.
"Those are things we hope to discover tomorrow, but at the moment we don't know what tomorrow will be like."
Sounds like tomorrow they have a potential fix to allow longer runs. Car isn't able to do them just now clearly.
diffuser wrote:
Back to back test weeks didn't help either. A 1 week gap between tests would have helped. So would a 3ird week of testing.
I don't think another team would have helped considering the issues they've had.
Looks like Australia will be the 3ird testing week.
Except a race weekend isn't anywhere near long as 4 days of testing
Maybe the FIA will allow them to run aero-rakes in Q1 and do an engine swap at the first tyre change.
PlatinumZealot wrote:
EB made a good point that Honda had been out of Formula 1 for over five years before they even begun conceptualizing the PU. Very tough no matter who you are. Even Porsche, BMW and Audi would find a stiff challenge I'm sure.
Absolutely Correct. It's just at some Point you have to finalise your Design and start Testing, or you won't be ready for the Season. And Honda seems to have missed that Point. They had the benefit of going in Blind 2015 and Token Restriction 2016. 2017 it was just a matter of either putting to much on your Plate or being unable to come up with solutions quick enough to make it in Time. As said earlier this can have multiple causes and i won't go on and putting my finger on one.
I just hope they have actual working fixes ready quick enough, i really really do.
diffuser wrote:
Back to back test weeks didn't help either. A 1 week gap between tests would have helped. So would a 3ird week of testing.
I don't think another team would have helped considering the issues they've had.
Looks like Australia will be the 3ird testing week.
Except a race weekend isn't anywhere near long as 4 days of testing
Maybe the FIA will allow them to run aero-rakes in Q1 and do an engine swap at the first tyre change.
I've decided to stop reading articles with sensational "click bait" titles. Not only is it exaggeration beyond belief but it is straight up mocking of Honda by self proclaimed "experts(aka whiners)" seeking impressions on their websites. If you're a fan, the only source worth reading is formula1 or Mclaren's twitter feed.
An underpowered 2015/2016 ICE has likely resulted in Honda producing one of the most efficient and possibly best energy deployment systems. Now their focus is on the ICE where it should be, and since there is NO testing of the engine allowed other than on the dynos during the season or off-season, on track pre-season testing is the only way to determine how the new power unit peripheral components hold up in real-world running. Granted, I do feel that Honda engineers should be testing the PU on the dyno upside-down, on it's side, sloshing on a pendulum, spinning in a centrifuge, all while in a 120F stove or whatever you're allowed to do with the PU not mounted to the chassis.
I'm also curious of the performance of the fuels and lubricants of BP/Castrol since Honda has worked with them in other racing categories. How much of an effect does switching from ExxonMobil have? Is there a learning curve? or does Honda simply give the data accumulated from their PUs thirsting on ExxonMobil and ask Castrol to replicate the formula? Probably not. If you understand the "Honda way", then these failures are NOTHING new. Soichiro Honda insisted that to succeed you NEED TO FAIL FIRST. It's easy to call Honda's 2015/2016 campaign "failures", but along the way, Honda engineers have undoubtedly discovered innovations and solutions unique to Honda. These learnings are what have carried over, and the "amateur" mistakes will hopefully raise young engineers to be masters of their craft.
It will be no surprise to me to see DNFs for Mclaren-Honda and Renault early in the season and probably not as midfield leaders until after the first in-season test. Hopefully by then they'll have a different livery.
