Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[etusch]

Sory guys but what is mean of IMO?

[The_table]

in my opinion

[etusch]

That's how long it takes them to do an engine swap, takes me 5 1/2 hrs, and mine isn't nearly as complex.

so far it took Mclaren 4 hours, almost every time they change it.

There is still too much to reduce it a pit stop time

[etusch]

in my opinion

I found it by googling but when I read @wazari's post I thought it may mean something different

[Craigy]

As you all may know, Mario Illien has been disbanded from his tasks at Renault as his mission obviously has come to an end. As he managed to elevate the performance of the Renault I would engage him asap to try to sort out the troubles if I were McLaren. Because he knows very well what to do with a troubled PU.

Just saying........

Sounds logical, except:

• That's not how Honda does racing R&D (Honda is about internal ideas, not external consultancy), and
• McLaren engaging with Illien directly would cause similar political problems to that which grew between RBR and Renault in the parallel situation a while ago. For all the tension, Honda and McLaren haven't actually started engaging in a PR war yet despite the problems.
• There's very likely a contractual issue between Ilmor and Renault which would preclude Ilmor from working for another F1 team for a period of time (a year, often), in order that Renault ideas don't end up inside another manufacturer's engine program and/or dubious concepts at Renault end up being pointed out to the FIA by whichever team Ilmor worked for after Renault.
• By the time Ilmor had worked their magic, Honda's existing team would probably have solved the issue and moved on to other developments already. It takes time to resolve things, even if you have recent experience.

[garrett]

That's not how Honda does racing R&D (Honda is about internal ideas, not external consultancy

But didn´t they engage Gilles Simon from the aborted PURE project to get some insights? Apart from that, that R & D approach in relation with the overwhelming task seems a little bit outdated, not to say suicidal. Ferrari and Renault did it too and had success. Japanese tradition? The time is high to change that attitude imo......

For all the tension, Honda and McLaren haven't actually started engaging in a PR war yet despite the problems.

I don´t think it would be that bad as they have no Dr. Marko...

There's very likely a contractual issue between Ilmor and Renault which would preclude Ilmor from working for another F1 team for a period of time

The gardening leave usually leasts for six month. That would be still in time to get on work for 2018 at least...

[bigblue]

Ha ! Had to break out the dictionary website for wazari's post, http://jisho.org/search/%E5%8F%8D%E9%80%86%E8%80%85

[PlatinumZealot]

He said they call him a traitor. Must be because he crossed the pacific to live in the USA.

The electrical problems being only insulation degradation is actually a relief for me because that is relatively easy to fix. According them they have sensors that detect the resistance of the insulation so they get a pre-warning before the insulation totally fails. That's a smart system because with it they can take that engine out and probe the insulation to find where the leakage point is. Not easy to do, but has to be done in the name of optimization. Insulation for such high line to line voltages is considerable thickness and weight. They don't just have positive and ground, they have positive, ground and negative. So double the voltage potential positive to negative.

[radosav]

So, engine is detuned.
Alonso yesterday: As of today we may have even less power than last year, but we’re running with settings that are not even close to the ones we’ll use in Australia, for different reasons, for different problems we have in the engine. The full power of our engine won’t be seen until we all the problems we are experiencing are sorted.
Edit, link.
http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _reaction/

[fellowhoodlums]

So, engine is detuned.
Alonso yesterday: As of today we may have even less power than last year, but we’re running with settings that are not even close to the ones we’ll use in Australia, for different reasons, for different problems we have in the engine. The full power of our engine won’t be seen until we all the problems we are experiencing are sorted.

Never saw that, it's a relief. Source?

[radosav]

So, engine is detuned.
Alonso yesterday: As of today we may have even less power than last year, but we’re running with settings that are not even close to the ones we’ll use in Australia, for different reasons, for different problems we have in the engine. The full power of our engine won’t be seen until we all the problems we are experiencing are sorted.

Never saw that, it's a relief. Source?

http://www.gptoday.com/full_story/view/ ... _reaction/

[Craigy]

But didn´t they engage Gilles Simon from the aborted PURE project to get some insights?

Honda and Simon have actually recently parted ways - just a few days ago according to reports.
He was one man, not like Illien bringing in a company he runs (Ilmor Engineering) with its own independent R&D resources. Simon was more like an employee to Honda, inside HRD.
I am not going to speculate on why that split is happening, but I have a few ideas.

Apart from that, that R & D approach in relation with the overwhelming task seems a little bit outdated, not to say suicidal. Ferrari and Renault did it too and had success. Japanese tradition? The time is high to change that attitude imo......

You don't change culture like that quickly, especially not one as strong as exists in Japan.
I'm not sure anyone in Honda particularly wants to win by "buying it in" anyway. Where's the prestige?
I think Honda want to win by being Honda. Copying the tricks used by others isn't part of that.

Mercedes-Benz had no qualms about buying Ilmor (in its previous incarnation) and subsequently rebadging it as "Mercedes-Benz High Performance Engines". It's the pinnacle of German F1 engineering, you see; just happens to be based in Brixworth, Northamptonshire, rather than in Germany. To some eyes that would be a cynical marketing ploy (taking credit for developments of someone else by simply buying up the company and then running it at arm's length as a special satellite organisation) - I do not believe Honda are in F1 for this.
F1 isn't marketing to Honda in the way it is to Mercedes. It's more than that to Honda.

The "Honda way" seems to us outsiders quite insular, like trying to solve all the problems without buying in talent/experience/skill from across the F1 engineering pool, as if this by itself would fix things. I think it's quite normal for a big Japanese company to behave like this, it's how my dealings with my Japanese colleagues have worked (I work for a multinational).

Even if you could transplant them into Sakura, how successful would those existing F1 staff be in a Japanese engineering organisation? Culturally, it would be a hell of a shock for both sides. It we were talking about a UK engineer used to being able to disregard a management structure and go directly to someone in the team just because he knows he's right, that would be potentially a disasterous fit; in the UK in particular, we have a culture of meritocracy (that is: I don't care your rank in the organisation, just how good you are a the problem we're working on), in France they tend to be quite hierarchichal (question your boss at your peril). In Japan each person knows their place and works like hell on it. The understandings of R&Rs and how to deal with items which overlap the scope of many people's jobs are totally, wildly different in each case.

Depending on the resources and how successfully they are employed, it may end up that Honda eventually wind up with better solutions than the others doing it all their own way - but how long will it take to get to that point?
HRD's F1 effort is still relatively new compared to the others, and the staff are young. They will learn. They will achieve success, if they are given enough time and resources.

[The_table]

We have to be hopeful because the last two specs we worked with didn’t match our expectations. <-less of a relief...

[diffuser]

What happened to Wazari ????

The positive outlook is gone ? You were so eager and excited for the season just a week ago ? People can be evil.

Don't make any hasty decisions when you're down. The Clouds will clear and sun will come back out.

I , of course, have selfish reasons for wanting you to stay on as I enjoy your posts. I can say for a certainty that you will be missed.

[garrett]

but how long will it take to get to that point?
HRD's F1 effort is still relatively new compared to the others, and the staff are young. They will learn. They will achieve success, if they are given enough time and resources.

Prestige?? Honda is virtually getting bashed throughout the media for their lack of performance.......

And that´s the main point: Enough time. From 2015 up to now is quite a long time. There is not much time left either for Alonso as well as for McLaren. McLaren still is searching for a title sponsor as we know and therefore, being watched by several companies, they have to perform well, another mediocre season could become crucial.

Not everything had been sunshine and roses between Ilmor and Viry-Chatillon, but Abiteboul finally realised they had no other choice. And Illien never was a part of the Renault team, nor an element inside the hierarchy, but working on a consulting base, something that also should work at Honda.

Did you know that Kawamoto and Ferrari agreed on a technological transfer for Ferraris weak-chested V12 in the winter of ´92? Honda knowledge of variable intakes, cylinder head airflow and pneumatic valve guide was exchanged with some Ferrari knowledge concerning sportscar engines.

To sum it up: my impression of that week test is that HRD is going in circles concerning the reliability and performance of their all new engine and time is running out, so that´s why the Illien solution came to my mind!