Post here all non technical related topics about Formula One. This includes race results, discussions, testing analysis etc. TV coverage and other personal questions should be in Off topic chat.
First they are kept with their drivers in the championship with a questionable developed car...now they wont even have to sit out the entire penalty.
Seems mclaren will get 5th pitbox because it has better facilities and because Bernie wants that. Not the end of the pitlane next to force india where mclaren belongs.
I find it disgusting Bernie meddles in. First he personaly made sure Hamilton and Alonso stayed in the championship running while the rest of the fia and the F! fans wanted them out for a long time, now this kind of cheating. Why dont they just give the trophy to mclaren? Really disgusting.
So exactly when and where did this new "cheating" activity by McLaren occur? All I see is a continued rant against McLaren for last year's debacle. Get over it.
Racing should be decided on the track, not the court room.
Ferrari didn't end up on the rear garage after 2002 Austrian GP scam and neither did Schuey and Rubens loose their points. Same thing with 1997 and Jean Todt blackmailing Peter Sauber to order his drivers to block Villeneuve if he wants to get Ferrari engines for next year. If Ferrari was sanctioned for all of their sins, their garage should be dislocated 100 miles from the circuit.
FIA punishments do not intend to terminate F1 teams , just to make them comply with the rules . Mc Laren deserved a punishment but not SUCH A PUNISHMENT , too harsh for me and a little unfair .
BTW are you a ferrari fan
any link to this rumour
Nice avatar manchild
It can hardly be considered cheting. Mr Ecclestone knows full well that a large proportion of F1 fans still support Mclaren, esspecially with Lewis on the team and Hekki alongside him.
It might not be fair but in the long run it is better for F1 that Mclaren have a chance to compete this year. A low end grid spot might just dissadvantage a wounded team right out of a competitive position.
Each team generates so much money towards the sport in terms of fan tickets, memorabilia, sponsorship deals and various other schemes, Mclaren in their current form will create a large percentage of this profit which will benefit the spectators with better TV coverage for example.
Bernie is all too aware of this and he will have calculated how much money he won't make if Mclaren don't do well this year, how much money the spectators will lose in terms of TV coverage for example.
Like it or lump it Bernie is actually doing us a favour, although that may not be his motivation. Chances are Ferrari will smear the arrows into the ground but at least Lewis or Hekki might get a few wins and maybe even take it down to the wire, thats what F1 wants and thats what Bernie is providing.
I think we all know this, its simple stuff, perhaps we don't want to believe this, perhaps we preffer to believe that these people are in support of one particular team (I've heard plenty of theories, too many in fact) but really they're all most concerned with their own wallets. At least this way we benefit too.
What is extremely dissapointing is that in this entire topic there has been one single unbiased and completely inoffensive reply. Are you people not ashamed of that?
Murphy's 9th Law of Technology:
Tell a man there are 300 million stars in the universe and he'll believe you. Tell him a bench has wet paint on it and he'll have to touch to be sure.
The F1 chiefs arn't stupid, McLaren are the only ones showing enough pace to at least challenge Ferrari...by giving them the last place in the pits would really dent their chances to take to it Ferrari.
They still have to pay their airfairs etc but can now at least fight fairly on the track.
A championship with a runaway leader, isn't interesting, it isn't a challenge.
TBH I think ALL teams should have the same number of garages....Force India have about 2 on a race day and Ferrari have 5...FI having 3 and Ferrari 4 would be fairer...
I find the heiki n hami have lots of fans and mclaren are strong, weak arguments. Im a big alonso fan and eventhough it would hurt him, i think it wouldv been more fair if mclaren drivers where thrown out of the championship and mclaren as a team out untill at least 2009. What they did (obtaining 780 pages design info, lying to the fia about how many people know, crying it isnt fair to be thrown out, then cry williams and bmw should be thrown out, bending the rules with wet tyre rules, lewis not being punished for causing a huge collision between the what would be winner webber and vettel, etc) is beyond any acceptable means.
Mosley is right to point out the championship was polluted by mclaren. Well never know how much info was used either direct or indirect by mclaren. But at least hold up the already pretty diminished penalty of demoting them to the back of the pitlane. They oughta shame themselves. Anyway, my opinion, you dont have to agree.
Barring all opinions of if they cheated/wht the punishment should be, McLaren should be in the last pitbox. Period. Last in points gets last pitbox. Simple enforcement of the rules. I really like McLaren, but you have to enforce rules fairly irregardless of who is in the team, or if they make money or not. You can't just decide they are a better money maker or more popular, and for those reasons not enforce rules. It's a joke otherwise. But then again the FIA are a horrible example of fairness.
First, in what way do McLaren cheat if Bernie Ecclestone himself gives them pitbox 5 instead of 11? Unless I am mistaken, you should direct your anger towards Bernie instead of McLaren.
Second, the FIA have nothing to do with this, Bernie is not part of the FIA!
I agree with you on that one Ray. Last in points last in pitlane. That's how it should be (even though being a Lewis, Heikki & McMerc fan I LIKE this turn of events I cannot deny that maybe it isn't really the most - for want of a better word - honest thing for the FIA to have sancitioned.) All being said though, I think McMerc do deserve this in one way, as the punishment delt to them, IMHO, was too harsh to start with.
Although, maybe the theory is that technically they aren't last in points, Mclaren drivers scored enough points to be 1st (or 2nd?) but the team was not allowed to use those points in the 2007 WCC. There's a bit of a grey area there which I think has been expolited to allow Mc-Merc to have a half decent pit box.
P_O_L: you've got to learn to curb that bias man. In you're first post you talk about how the F1 fans all wanted Mclaren out and Bernie kept them in. I bet I could find a fair few people who wanted Mclaren in. I wanted them in for a start. (I admit it would not have been RIGHT, but that's still what I'd have liked to have happened.)
Also the point about Hamilton "Causing" the accident at Fuji -
firstly he didn't, it cannot be proved he did, and in my opinion (which I'm trying to be as unbiased as I can here) from viewing the video's it looks like yes, Lewis could have delt with the situation better than he did. But he certainly wasn't the CAUSE of the accident. If that's the case then Jarno Trulli caused Kubica's accident at Montreal!
And secondly: what on earth does the Fuji incident have to do with Mclaren's "cheating"?! why should a team be penalised based upon the actions of one of their drivers lack of finesse in such a situation. They didn't tell him to try and cause a pile up.
Finally I completely agree with Roland above, I fail to see how this 5th pit garage issue is Mclaren cheating? Surely it's nothing more than a cock-up by the FIA? I mean, its not like Mclaren have already setup shop at Melbourne, chaining themselves to the pit garage refusing to move in protest. The FIA have given them this garage position (supposedly - I've not read an article yet which deals with this issue). Put it this way: if you're running an F1 team, and you're expecting the back of the pitlane, if an FIA email arrives in your inbox saying:
"Dear [....],
Subject to me wanting something of a spectacle this year, and insted facing the possibility of a Ferrari walkover, I've decided to give you pit garage #5.
Hope you enjoy,
signed;
Bernie E"
are you going to email back saying:
a) Thankyou Bernie, you won't regret it.
or
b) Thanks, but it wouldn't be right, we'll stay at the back of the grid and take the hugely disproportionate fine on the chin too.
I thought so.
Silence is golden when you don't know a good answer.
allan wrote:and mc, why the hell do u stick ferrari into every single thread in this forum? dude, get a life!
Talking about cheating in F1 without mentioning Ferrari is like talking about wine without mentioning France.
That 2007 agenda to put Mclaren in F1 history books as the dirtiest team ever simply won't pass just as Schuey 7 titles didn't. There'll always be people denying such attempts and you can't help it.
BTW, perhaps I'm in a *ucking wheelchair and I spend too much time at the PC so don't tell me to get a life. I'm not thankfully but you are getting personal with people you don't know anything about. Get my point?
I'd like to take mc's statement, and revise it to: Talking about F1 without mentioning ferrari, is like talking about wine with mentioniong France. Cheating on the other hand is something Ferrai left for renault and mclaren;)
You mc obviously don't get the idea, or don't want to get the idea, that this discussion has nothing to do with ferrari. Btw, I also want to remind u that david coulthard and hakkinen did the same thing that michael and rubens did in 2002, at least twice as far as i remember.
sorry guys for posting this reply in this thread, i know it has nothing to do with the discussion.
