2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Schuttelberg]

I think McLaren fans should feel quite proud. First of all, because even in such tumultuous times, a majority have kept their sanity, wits and dignity about them and secondly, McLaren themselves should be proud for taking such a brave path. I have a lot of respect for the ambition they're trying to achieve together when it's very easy for them to get a customer engine and bring up the midfield with an occasional podium. Just look at Williams, for instance- A team with tremendous prestige and history that should be fighting for wins, at least has made peace with mediocrity. I understand that the last two years have been truly painful, but sometimes you need to go two steps back to make four forward steps overall.

I think most of Honda's issues are fixes that can be made in a month or so and without any restrictions on development, Honda should try and catch the others by year end. I feel they can achieve it.

[proteus]

But i have a different question. Is it possible to mount a 16 spec in one car and the other running with 17? In that case, one of them could research the engine, while the other would be making aero tests.

[proteus]

I think McLaren fans should feel quite proud. First of all, because even in such tumultuous times, a majority have kept their sanity, wits and dignity about them and secondly, McLaren themselves should be proud for taking such a brave path. I have a lot of respect for the ambition they're trying to achieve together when it's very easy for them to get a customer engine and bring up the midfield with an occasional podium. Just look at Williams, for instance- A team with tremendous prestige and history that should be fighting for wins, at least has made peace with mediocrity. I understand that the last two years have been truly painful, but sometimes you need to go two steps back to make four forward steps overall.

I think most of Honda's issues are fixes that can be made in a month or so and without any restrictions on development, Honda should try and catch the others by year end. I feel they can achieve it.

I really like Mclaren, its by far my favourite team, but this is the biggest low they have ever got themself into since i have started watching F1. They had problems with reliability for sure, like i will never forget the 01 season in particular that race when Hakkinen comfortably lead and got hydraulic failure half of a lap before the end of the race...But in those times they were still quick, even if the engine many times bursted up like a Saturn rocket when launching.

This 3 years tho, they have no real speed and no reliability either. Its like cursed circle which jusst doesnt want to stop being round... Nonetheless, i will allways be their supporter, no matter how it turns. Just hope the luck starts shining again on them, since they are one of the most unluckiest teams in past decade and a half.

[Goran2812]

But i have a different question. Is it possible to mount a 16 spec in one car and the other running with 17? In that case, one of them could research the engine, while the other would be making aero tests.

I doubt that it's possible without major work on every aspect of the car...

[ME4ME]

Talking about power numbers is highly irrelevant at this point. It's all based on speculation or incomparable power modes.

Honda are in a whole lot of trouble, but reverting to the 2016 unit would be to admit defeat. The deficit would be enormous.
The 2017, although at this point unreliable and not able to run at a decent power-state has at least the potential to become a great unit. It just requires a massive amount of effort to get it right, but Honda can do that if they get the chance to run it on track, diagnose the issues and get time to come up with solutions.

Short term, yes Mclaren might struggle massively at the first 3 races. Medium term, this will result in PU penalties later in the season. But getting the 2017 unit to work is the only way forward. Mclaren has no choise than to run the unit and accept multiple DNF's until Honda gets the reliability in order.

[mwillems]

I think McLaren fans should feel quite proud. First of all, because even in such tumultuous times, a majority have kept their sanity, wits and dignity about them and secondly, McLaren themselves should be proud for taking such a brave path. I have a lot of respect for the ambition they're trying to achieve together when it's very easy for them to get a customer engine and bring up the midfield with an occasional podium. Just look at Williams, for instance- A team with tremendous prestige and history that should be fighting for wins, at least has made peace with mediocrity. I understand that the last two years have been truly painful, but sometimes you need to go two steps back to make four forward steps overall.

I think most of Honda's issues are fixes that can be made in a month or so and without any restrictions on development, Honda should try and catch the others by year end. I feel they can achieve it.

I really like Mclaren, its by far my favourite team, but this is the biggest low they have ever got themself into since i have started watching F1. They had problems with reliability for sure, like i will never forget the 01 season in particular that race when Hakkinen comfortably lead and got hydraulic failure half of a lap before the end of the race...But in those times they were still quick, even if the engine many times bursted up like a Saturn rocket when launching.

This 3 years tho, they have no real speed and no reliability either. Its like cursed circle which jusst doesnt want to stop being round... Nonetheless, i will allways be their supporter, no matter how it turns. Just hope the luck starts shining again on them, since they are one of the most unluckiest teams in past decade and a half.

I think Ron was one of those guys that made his own luck... for good or for worse

[diffuser]

If the engine is really 50hp down in comparison to last year would it be realistic that they use the 2016 spec? Can they use the 2016 spec?

The 2017 PU isnt running how it should and is only 30hp down. They need to work ot the issues. They'll figure it out.

Yeah sure, they will figure it out but if changes are required they will quickly use up their available engines.
Why not use the first races a 2016 engine and bring in the 2017 once sorted out.
This way they don't waste their limited amount of engines after 4 races.

Such is life.

[Stalker1]

Talking about power numbers is highly irrelevant at this point. It's all based on speculation or incomparable power modes.

Honda are in a whole lot of trouble, but reverting to the 2016 unit would be to admit defeat. The deficit would be enormous.
The 2017, although at this point unreliable and not able to run at a decent power-state has at least the potential to become a great unit. It just requires a massive amount of effort to get it right, but Honda can do that if they get the chance to run it on track, diagnose the issues and get time to come up with solutions.

Short term, yes Mclaren might struggle massively at the first 3 races. Medium term, this will result in PU penalties later in the season. But getting the 2017 unit to work is the only way forward. Mclaren has no choise than to run the unit and accept multiple DNF's until Honda gets the reliability in order.

Based on what you say, that the 2017-spec power unit has the potenial to become a great pwer unit?

[Stalker1]

But i have a different question. Is it possible to mount a 16 spec in one car and the other running with 17? In that case, one of them could research the engine, while the other would be making aero tests.

Read the last page! Other users pointed out, that as the layout of the power unit is different, the mounting points positsions could also be different and etc. The chassis are also very different.

[Alonsofor2017]

Do you know what iv noticed massa has always been in an higher finishing team than Alonso ever since they parted ways at Ferrari. even though Alonso was always the higher level of driver whilst at Ferrari (and arguably after). Man he's unlucky

[DiogoBrand]

Do you know what iv noticed massa has always been in an higher finishing team than Alonso ever since they parted ways at Ferrari. even though Alonso was always the higher level of driver whilst at Ferrari (and arguably after). Man he's unlucky

I'd still go Alonso's way any time. Alonso's got plenty of wins and podiums, what he wants is another title.
Massa had better results, but he settled for a midfield position. Alonso may be pretty much a backmarker, but at least he has risked everything to try and chase his objective.
Just look at their entire careers, Alonso had his lows and highs, but achieved what most drivers in F1 only dream of, and spent the rest of his career afterwards trying to get it back. In the meantime, Massa has always settled for Number 2. I mean: is there something more humiliating than being in a position where you hear "Alonso is faster than you" and just accept it?

I think this is almost a good metaphor for life: You either risk everything to try and make something incredible, maybe lose everything in the process, maybe achieve something incredible as you set out for. Or just set for "ordinary" and accept that you'll never be the best at anything.
IMO the fist option is way more exciting.

[hazelnut120]

I just want to know one thing, these short runs McLaren did, were they on heavy fuel, medium or low fuel? Were they trying to chase lap times? Or is this the extent of what the car can actually do? We know there's around 5 seconds between full out q3 pace, and the pace we generally see in the races. What I'm saying is, are they really only better than the Saubers going flat out q3 lap? Is that the extent if the power unit holds together?

Also isn't Zak Brown affiliated with Motorsport, and by extension Autosport? Why would he allow Ben Anderson to badmouth the team? These and more questions will be answered as the season goes on.

Zak Brown doesn't have any editorial access otherwise it would have been a conflict of interest. Don't expect Autosport/motorsport to go easy on McLaren because of Brown.

[Vasconia]

I just want to know one thing, these short runs McLaren did, were they on heavy fuel, medium or low fuel? Were they trying to chase lap times? Or is this the extent of what the car can actually do? We know there's around 5 seconds between full out q3 pace, and the pace we generally see in the races. What I'm saying is, are they really only better than the Saubers going flat out q3 lap? Is that the extent if the power unit holds together?

Also isn't Zak Brown affiliated with Motorsport, and by extension Autosport? Why would he allow Ben Anderson to badmouth the team? These and more questions will be answered as the season goes on.

Zak Brown doesn't have any editorial access otherwise it would have been a conflict of interest. Don't expect Autosport/motorsport to go easy on McLaren because of Brown.

As far as I know Autosport has ben quite cruel with some of their comments, so you are right.

[Vasconia]

Talking about power numbers is highly irrelevant at this point. It's all based on speculation or incomparable power modes.

Honda are in a whole lot of trouble, but reverting to the 2016 unit would be to admit defeat. The deficit would be enormous.
The 2017, although at this point unreliable and not able to run at a decent power-state has at least the potential to become a great unit. It just requires a massive amount of effort to get it right, but Honda can do that if they get the chance to run it on track, diagnose the issues and get time to come up with solutions.

Short term, yes Mclaren might struggle massively at the first 3 races. Medium term, this will result in PU penalties later in the season. But getting the 2017 unit to work is the only way forward. Mclaren has no choise than to run the unit and accept multiple DNF's until Honda gets the reliability in order.

Based on what you say, that the 2017-spec power unit has the potenial to become a great pwer unit?

Even Honda has said that they are worried with the difference in performace between their PU and the others. So it does not look like a great PU, sadly...

[tok-tokkie]

About the vibrations. Is it fairly certain that Honda is using an unusual firing order so the combustion events are not evenly spaced (when running all cylinders). In that regard there was some nice analysis of the audio of the engine but that was when some cylinders were not firing but even so the angular spacing of the firing cylinders was determined & it seems the intervals were unusual.

So, if the firing order is not regular, is that the probable cause of the vibrations. Would that be systemic? Only by stiffening the components could they reduce the vibrations while keeping the firing order unchanged. Either way (change the firing order being the second) that seems to indicate some pretty serious changes. Nothing until the European events? Lucky that the token system has been rescinded.