Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[bill shoe]

Honda's longer-term problem is their inability to get on top of the "now" so they can methodically plan and execute the future. They are stuck in an oh---- loop of solving problems after the fact, and they've been stuck there for three years. This leaves forward plans to be a quickly slapped-together hopper of reverse-engineering and uncoordinated ideas. Which leads to more oh---- loops...

Mercedes has a superb forward-action mindset, this is the one thing Ross Brawn says he tried to instill. They are clearly considering power unit options for 2018 right now, and they will spend the last 6 months of 2017 carefully simulating and testing the snot out of all of them. When 2018 pre-season testing starts, the Merc power unit will again provide competitive power in a stone-reliable package. Mercedes will then immediately focus on their 2019 program...

[anthonyfa18]

If this motor is so bad why not return 2016 power unit, and bring back the 2017 b spec motor around the Canadian Grand Prix, by that time The problem should be fixed by that time, 2016 power unit was reliable any good show good power at the end of the season.

[godlameroso]

2016 unit won't fit it's much bigger, heavier, and has a higher center of gravity, and no CC/TJI.

When Alonso was asked the same question he immediately and without hesitation said a resounding "NO". So he must think it's better than last year, it can't be worse than last year's power unit, it just can't. Even if it makes no more power, it's still a better packaged power unit so it's still a net gain over last year.

[wuzak]

2016 unit won't fit it's much bigger, heavier, and has a higher center of gravity, and no CC/TJI.

The chassis and gearbox mounting points are the same.

Would you rather have reliability or lower weight and CoG?

[GhostF1]

Honda's longer-term problem is their inability to get on top of the "now" so they can methodically plan and execute the future. They are stuck in an oh---- loop of solving problems after the fact, and they've been stuck there for three years. This leaves forward plans to be a quickly slapped-together hopper of reverse-engineering and uncoordinated ideas. Which leads to more oh---- loops...

Mercedes has a superb forward-action mindset, this is the one thing Ross Brawn says he tried to instill. They are clearly considering power unit options for 2018 right now, and they will spend the last 6 months of 2017 carefully simulating and testing the snot out of all of them. When 2018 pre-season testing starts, the Merc power unit will again provide competitive power in a stone-reliable package. Mercedes will then immediately focus on their 2019 program...

I think that is a bit of a stretch to say Honda have no forward mind..
The RA615H was immature yes, it lacked any sort of reliability and it was widely publicised during its in-season development, mostly due to Honda only just returning and underestimating requirements. The RA616H was actually a solid improvement! Showing decent reliability on par with some other manufacturers and decent power by season's end. So they improved quite massively over the winter there, albeit still with some issues.
The RA617H is a different situation altogether, the thing and its ERS systems is entirely new, no evolution. Something only Renault is doing this season also (note they are on the same boat regarding pre-season testing issues, also note they have said development would be slow but prove to be potent). Merc and Ferrari are obviously rather happy with their architectures as this year will be their 4th iterations of their engines... Renault and Honda are effectively starting again. Architecture 2, Spec 1.
If this was just an evolved version of last years engine, with these issues, I'd be disappointed, but it isn't so I'm not at all surprised there are some teething issues. All I can see at the moment is how Honda would of been in 2015 had they not been inexperienced and had they not brought a premature PU to the game. This test, even with the issues, they come across a little more experienced and have a little more know-how. It's too early to tell at the moment but I think their progress will be noticeable throughout the season.

[GhostF1]

2016 unit won't fit it's much bigger, heavier, and has a higher center of gravity, and no CC/TJI.

The chassis and gearbox mounting points are the same.

Would you rather have reliability or lower weight and CoG?

Surely it would not fit.. The thing isn't even remotely related to previous engines, it'd likely be just as difficult to fit a Renault or Merc unit at the last minute as it would be to fit the RA616H.. and that's ignoring the ERS systems..

[JonoNic]

Many posters on this forum are mentioning doom and gloom for the Honda and McLaren relationship, and there are talks of jumping ship. McLaren and Honda will need to stick it out this season at least.

So let's change the subject a bit. My question is, "What are all the possible solutions that Honda can use to fix those vibrations without adding weight to the power unit and without loosing performance? Hopefully this issue might help gain an advantage by finding an innovative solution to their current issues. I know that we do not know exactly where the issues present themselves, but it is always good to read how you guys come up with innovative solutions.

I'm not an engineer so my input will most likely end here. Feel free to ask this question in a different way if mine is not making sense.

[Gerhardsa]

Just like Fernando Alonso cannot afford to jump ship from McLaren now, so cant McLaren afford to part ways with Honda.

No Honda means no engine for McLaren. And even if they switch to BMW, they will start from scratch...again, so they will experience the same 3-4 years all over again.

They have no choice but to stay with Honda in my opinion

[diffuser]

So is YUL f1 a montrealer?

[hemichromis]

Honda's longer-term problem is their inability to get on top of the "now" so they can methodically plan and execute the future. They are stuck in an oh---- loop of solving problems after the fact, and they've been stuck there for three years. This leaves forward plans to be a quickly slapped-together hopper of reverse-engineering and uncoordinated ideas. Which leads to more oh---- loops...

Mercedes has a superb forward-action mindset, this is the one thing Ross Brawn says he tried to instill. They are clearly considering power unit options for 2018 right now, and they will spend the last 6 months of 2017 carefully simulating and testing the snot out of all of them. When 2018 pre-season testing starts, the Merc power unit will again provide competitive power in a stone-reliable package. Mercedes will then immediately focus on their 2019 program...

I think that has more to do with Mercedes having the best engine of the last 4 years, they don't need to fix it so have plenty of time to look forward.

[PhillipM]

The chassis and gearbox mounting points are the same.

But none of the ancillaries, packaging, bodywork or cooling solutions are. Physically bolting it in is about 1% of the work. Ask Renault what happens to your car when you have to slap another engine in and run the whole car with crap packaging...

[morefirejules08]

The chassis and gearbox mounting points are the same.

But none of the ancillaries, packaging, bodywork or cooling solutions are. Physically bolting it in is about 1% of the work. Ask Renault what happens to your car when you have to slap another engine in and run the whole car with crap packaging...

Why not ask Ross Brawn the same question?

[Thunder]

The Hybrid PU's are a whole different story compared to an Ancient NA V8 in terms of packaging and Integration.

[FW17]

I guess if the TJI is causing the trouble, then they could be reverting to last year's lean concept and hope that the vibration issue is somewhat sorted. Additionally adding a stiffened valve cover is also being done.

Honda must be hoping that they can run that configuration with their new turbo sizing. Hopefully they be running at least the Abu Dhabi power levels. May be they would run out of fuel but at least they will be able to work the chassis for the first half of the season before the TJI issues are sorted for Spa.

[godlameroso]

Spa?!