Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[bill shoe]

I think that has more to do with Mercedes having the best engine of the last 4 years, they don't need to fix it so have plenty of time to look forward.

Agreed, it comes down to question of chicken or egg. Somehow, Mercedes has both and Honda has neither.

[mattia.bobbo]

I guess if the TJI is causing the trouble, then they could be reverting to last year's lean concept and hope that the vibration issue is somewhat sorted. Additionally adding a stiffened valve cover is also being done.

Honda must be hoping that they can run that configuration with their new turbo sizing. Hopefully they be running at least the Abu Dhabi power levels. May be they would run out of fuel but at least they will be able to work the chassis for the first half of the season before the TJI issues are sorted for Spa.

It they ditch TJI they better fit a gp2 engine for sure. The only way Honda can come out of this mess is buying technicians from other team suppliers like mahle..

[rgava]

Some of you were pointing to the fact Honda seems to be focusing almost exclusively in solving their electrical gremlins.

IMHO, could be that vibration induced micro interruptions on the electrical system is causing misfires, wrong ignition/injection which in times increments the vibrations causing more interruptions...

This could explain why the presumed instability of their combustion concept was not detected during bench testing.

I'm not as expert as some of you guys, but this is my thought.

If I'm right, there is some light at the end of the tunnel. And it's not a train coming.

[dren]

I read on another site the rumored 'trick' short crank is causing vibration issues which are compounded elsewhere. Question: "Did anyone do firing order analysis on the audio? If so, I can't find it. I remember seeing something but thought it was for an older PU. That could shed some light on the crank rumor.

Another question: "Is Honda testing a slew of single cylinders on a dyno and waiting until the last minute to throw together 6 of the best performing ones?"

[etusch]

Many posters on this forum are mentioning doom and gloom for the Honda and McLaren relationship, and there are talks of jumping ship. McLaren and Honda will need to stick it out this season at least.

So let's change the subject a bit. My question is, "What are all the possible solutions that Honda can use to fix those vibrations without adding weight to the power unit and without loosing performance? Hopefully this issue might help gain an advantage by finding an innovative solution to their current issues. I know that we do not know exactly where the issues present themselves, but it is always good to read how you guys come up with innovative solutions.

I'm not an engineer so my input will most likely end here. Feel free to ask this question in a different way if mine is not making sense.

I think japanness people doesnt hury like western about doing things. I don't know.
But I see that mclaren and media put pressure on Honda and this may prevent them finding clever solutions and could canalise them to choose quick way

[Redragon]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

[Redragon]

Also Booullier, has said that with Mercedes engine they will be winning but also recognise that it is not only Honda problems that have encounter on the tests http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/03/14/fo ... 73547.html

[godlameroso]

Also Booullier, has said that with Mercedes engine they will be winning but also recognise that it is not only Honda problems that have encounter on the tests http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/03/14/fo ... 73547.html

He says that the chassis is too heavy at the moment as well.

[mwillems]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

Hmm, so last years engine is 50hp away from the current best engines?
I'd be surprised if that were true, IMO.

[ncassi22]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

Well...seeing as Sauber were using a very powerful 2016 Ferrari engine, if you were to believe AS surely the Mclaren chassis was designed by god himself... And we all know he's over at RB

[Redragon]

Also Booullier, has said that with Mercedes engine they will be winning but also recognise that it is not only Honda problems that have encounter on the tests http://motor.as.com/motor/2017/03/14/fo ... 73547.html

He says that the chassis is too heavy at the moment as well.

That's what it surprise me most from the interview.

[godlameroso]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

Hmm, so last years engine is 50hp away from the current best engines?
I'd be surprised if that were true, IMO.

I think what he meant was that Honda 2016 engine was good for 900 hp and the 2017 engine is only good for 850 hp at the tests. It's really hard to improve much in 1 1/2 weeks, it takes longer than that, however development isn't linear, sometimes it's slow, sometimes something is discovered which gives you a decent chunk.

[Redragon]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

Hmm, so last years engine is 50hp away from the current best engines?
I'd be surprised if that were true, IMO.

I think what he meant was that Honda 2016 engine was good for 900 hp and the 2017 engine is only good for 850 hp at the tests. It's really hard to improve much in 1 1/2 weeks, it takes longer than that, however development isn't linear, sometimes it's slow, sometimes something is discovered which gives you a decent chunk.

The estimation of Honda HP at the end of 2016 was around 930 Hp but Mercedes was estimated around 990 Hp and following the especulative Spanish reports and assuming the were on test detuned. My conclusion and that's it is personal, so I could be wrong it is: if Mercedes is more than 1000 Hp in 2017 and Honda is just 100 Hp (Marca) less during the test and the Honda in comparation to its 2016 is just 50 Hp less (AS), that suggest they are stall with same power as last year or they are a bit over and close to 1000 HP. So between 930 to 970 Hp. So at its peak maybe they could be close to 1000Hp

[glenntws]

What ever happened to glenntws?

Call me a tinfoil nutter, but I always thought he was secretly a Honda employee.

Sorry that I haven't been answering for a few days/weeks but my high School degree takes up so much time. It's just sad that I can't be as active as I want in this forum...

Altough I'm not a Honda employee, I wish i could be but hey, maybe someday dreams could come true.... But I take it as a big compliment

Regarding the engine: It sounds healthy in every audio you hear, i'm more than sure they got their combustion system right in terms of gas Dynamics. Even though they use pre-chamber ignition, the engine doesn't sound as raspy.

Firing order seems to be 1-3-2-4-6-5, which works out with the full throttle sound, the cylinder-shutoff sound and the idling. Also, it would be the only logical choice if they don't want big problems with harmonics.

What's about the ERS: Don't worry about that. The engine runs on very low power, the wastegates are (I think) always closed, because they have such a low amount of gas to charge the MGU-H That'y why the ERS light kicks in so early.

The problems they have are somewhat bitter, but when they are able to fix them all, their base will certainly allow them to have a very strong PU (if not the strongest IMO)_

Their PU is still nothing like the mercedes one. Maybe the changed their architecture a bit for better positioning of tubo and so on, but the engine is still the most outstanding one in therms of design (compared to Ferrari, MB and Renault).

Also: Sad to see you go Wazari. You're a very cool guy and it would be nice to see you in the forum in the future. I also think about sharing my engine Project to you all and some Feedback from someone like you would be more than nice

[makecry]

So Spanish Newspaper As is stating that Honda was 100 Hp from the top engines like Mercedes and Marca is saying that during the test the Engine was 50 Hp less than engine in 2016. Could someone do the maths there? Honda reaching more than 1000 Hp in mid season after resolving problems?

Well...seeing as Sauber were using a very powerful 2016 Ferrari engine, if you were to believe AS surely the Mclaren chassis was designed by god himself... And we all know he's over at RB

Well, Peter Prod was the head of Aero at RBR during their WCC/WDC years. Newey gets way more credit than he actually deserves.Don't get me wrong, he is one of best in what he does, perhaps the best but those RBRs were as much Peter Prod's as they were Newey's.