Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[63l8qrrfy6]

I read on another site the rumored 'trick' short crank is causing vibration issues which are compounded elsewhere. Question: "Did anyone do firing order analysis on the audio? If so, I can't find it. I remember seeing something but thought it was for an older PU. That could shed some light on the crank rumor.

Another question: "Is Honda testing a slew of single cylinders on a dyno and waiting until the last minute to throw together 6 of the best performing ones?"

If anything a shorter crank should be stiffer in torsion and likely have a smaller inertia so I can't see it being worse for TV.

Also word on the street is they have been doing some single cylinder work in UK with a small team not sure if anything came out of that - this appeared to be independent of the ilmor rumors.

[godlameroso]

I read on another site the rumored 'trick' short crank is causing vibration issues which are compounded elsewhere. Question: "Did anyone do firing order analysis on the audio? If so, I can't find it. I remember seeing something but thought it was for an older PU. That could shed some light on the crank rumor.

Another question: "Is Honda testing a slew of single cylinders on a dyno and waiting until the last minute to throw together 6 of the best performing ones?"

If anything a shorter crank should be stiffer in torsion and likely have a smaller inertia so I can't see it being worse for TV.

Also word on the street is they have been doing some single cylinder work in UK with a small team not sure if anything came out of that - this appeared to be independent of the ilmor rumors.

If the crank is shorter because it's missing a main bearing journal it would explain that rumor. Then again it's a rumor and not a hard fact.

[63l8qrrfy6]

I read on another site the rumored 'trick' short crank is causing vibration issues which are compounded elsewhere. Question: "Did anyone do firing order analysis on the audio? If so, I can't find it. I remember seeing something but thought it was for an older PU. That could shed some light on the crank rumor.

Another question: "Is Honda testing a slew of single cylinders on a dyno and waiting until the last minute to throw together 6 of the best performing ones?"

If anything a shorter crank should be stiffer in torsion and likely have a smaller inertia so I can't see it being worse for TV.

Also word on the street is they have been doing some single cylinder work in UK with a small team not sure if anything came out of that - this appeared to be independent of the ilmor rumors.

If the crank is shorter because it's missing a main bearing journal it would explain that rumor. Then again it's a rumor and not a hard fact.

removing a bearing would not lower the torsional stiffness - it would lower the bending stiffness though.

also let's be honest it is absolutely impossible to just eliminate a main bearing.
sure, you can probably do it with a very low power engine that has a centre bearing but it will never work in a sporty engine let alone a racing engine.

[godlameroso]

True.

[GhostF1]

What ever happened to glenntws?

Call me a tinfoil nutter, but I always thought he was secretly a Honda employee.

Sorry that I haven't been answering for a few days/weeks but my high School degree takes up so much time. It's just sad that I can't be as active as I want in this forum...

Altough I'm not a Honda employee, I wish i could be but hey, maybe someday dreams could come true.... But I take it as a big compliment

Regarding the engine: It sounds healthy in every audio you hear, i'm more than sure they got their combustion system right in terms of gas Dynamics. Even though they use pre-chamber ignition, the engine doesn't sound as raspy.

Firing order seems to be 1-3-2-4-6-5, which works out with the full throttle sound, the cylinder-shutoff sound and the idling. Also, it would be the only logical choice if they don't want big problems with harmonics.

What's about the ERS: Don't worry about that. The engine runs on very low power, the wastegates are (I think) always closed, because they have such a low amount of gas to charge the MGU-H That'y why the ERS light kicks in so early.

The problems they have are somewhat bitter, but when they are able to fix them all, their base will certainly allow them to have a very strong PU (if not the strongest IMO)_

Their PU is still nothing like the mercedes one. Maybe the changed their architecture a bit for better positioning of tubo and so on, but the engine is still the most outstanding one in therms of design (compared to Ferrari, MB and Renault).

Also: Sad to see you go Wazari. You're a very cool guy and it would be nice to see you in the forum in the future. I also think about sharing my engine Project to you all and some Feedback from someone like you would be more than nice

Always keen to hear your thoughts Glenntws! Glad you found some spare time.
Question.. What things make you think the Honda PU is the most outstanding re: design/potential? And why you believe their base will prove to be the strongest? Your speculative thoughts as well.

It sounds healthy on full throttle and I'm a big sucker for its theatrics leaving the garage on half cylinders, then it does a little rotary-sounding hiccup at pit lane end when all six fire as it leaves the pits, sounds great! (every video you can see the Renault engineers closer to pit exit all coming out to watch and listen haha.

I still think the Mercedes sound is vastly different to any other engine on the grid, it has a really piercing wail. The Renault has a nice sound to it this year, Ferrari more or less sounds the most similar to previous years but Honda? It actually seems quieter than years before! (Although I guess with it being run at a detuned level, as you suggest also, wastegates always shut, that would answer my own question)

[roon]

I read on another site the rumored 'trick' short crank is causing vibration issues which are compounded elsewhere. Question: "Did anyone do firing order analysis on the audio? If so, I can't find it. I remember seeing something but thought it was for an older PU. That could shed some light on the crank rumor.

Another question: "Is Honda testing a slew of single cylinders on a dyno and waiting until the last minute to throw together 6 of the best performing ones?"

If anything a shorter crank should be stiffer in torsion and likely have a smaller inertia so I can't see it being worse for TV.

Also word on the street is they have been doing some single cylinder work in UK with a small team not sure if anything came out of that - this appeared to be independent of the ilmor rumors.

If the crank is shorter because it's missing a main bearing journal it would explain that rumor. Then again it's a rumor and not a hard fact.

Removing a center journal wouldn't shorten the crankshaft, but removing an outer journal would. Although it seems even less likely to have a cantilever crankshaft. But who knows. Two central main journals inteleaved between the three throws, the two outer throws being cantilevered, would provide a shorter crank. PTO location then becomes interesting...

I speculated previously that perhaps one of the reasons for wanting a shorter crankshaft would be for co-axial MGU-K installation.

[godlameroso]

You mean inside the crank like some kind of weird Tesla coil?

[Gaz.]

Honda engine sound

So these are various clips I took of the Honda engine ( McLaren car har har har ) around the track during week 2 of testing.

Still has that mazing cylinder shut off sound. however, that weird resonating sound across gear changes happening a lot. Well worth a listen to the audio, got some sweet sound recordings of her on track - could be worthwhile for analysis.

Also got a slo mo as it passed and you can actually here the firing on the engine!

P.S it's in 1080P so make sure to select that as it selects 360p default

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bPQ3_Un ... e=youtu.be

The exhaust note reminds me of a Triumph Triple:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YxtF8OjMGEg

Could Honda be firing the cylinders in pairs?

[roon]

You mean inside the crank like some kind of weird Tesla coil?

No, I just mean end to end, sharing the same axis.

[wuzak]

Could Honda be firing the cylinders in pairs?

Only possible if they run a flat plane crank (2 up, 1 down) rather than the traditional 120° crank.

[Tommy Cookers]

Removing a center journal wouldn't shorten the crankshaft, but removing an outer journal would. Although it seems even less likely to have a cantilever crankshaft. But who knows. Two central main journals inteleaved between the three throws, the two outer throws being cantilevered, would provide a shorter crank. PTO location then becomes interesting...
I speculated previously that perhaps one of the reasons for wanting a shorter crankshaft would be for co-axial MGU-K installation.

the usual term for what you are calling a cantilever crankshaft is an overhung crankshaft

(btw the person who wrote (elsewhere) about the Reidel 2 stroke in its motorcycle application might take note of this)


@glenn
iirc Honda in the 80s had right bank cylinders 1, 2, 3, left bank 4, 5, 6, and firing order 1, 4, 2, 5, 3, 6
(and of course 240 deg of rotation between any crank throw and the next crank throw)
is your 1, 3, 2, 4, 6, 5 firing order based on these conventions ?

btw the only thing I remember about what we call Germany is that Hochschule isn't what is known in the USA as high school

[GoranF1]

MP4-31 vs MCL32 sound comparation.

https://youtu.be/RNO3MDeCT38

[dren]

You mean inside the crank like some kind of weird Tesla coil?

That would be an interesting installation. I would assume the rotor would be the crank. The stator would be limited to the distance between the rods along the axial length unless there was some sort of way to segment it. If the stator was inside the crank, the crank would have to be fairly large and heavy, I'd think.

As it was mentioned by someone else, maybe Honda wanted to mount the K at the end of the crank, but that would add overall length. I'd still think you'd want to mount the K as low as possible and to the side like has been done. Although, Honda likes to mount their electric assist motors as flywheels in their IMA systems.

[toraabe]

You mean inside the crank like some kind of weird Tesla coil?

That would be an interesting installation. I would assume the rotor would be the crank. The stator would be limited to the distance between the rods along the axial length unless there was some sort of way to segment it. If the stator was inside the crank, the crank would have to be fairly large and heavy, I'd think.

As it was mentioned by someone else, maybe Honda wanted to mount the K at the end of the crank, but that would add overall length. I'd still think you'd want to mount the K as low as possible and to the side like has been done. Although, Honda likes to mount their electric assist motors as flywheels in their IMA systems.

Listen to this. .. And .. blue smoke from the engine .. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uQHiZA4Hnbw

[anthonyfa18]

As being a honda love it's sad to say it's time for Honda to wake up http://www.f1undercover.com/mclaren-win ... -boullier/