2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[proteus]

Marchionne also spared a thought for the traumas faced in testing by the struggling McLaren team. "I wish them a good recovery," he said. He makes it sound like McLaren has cancer .
http://en.f1i.com/news/261879-mercedes- ... ionne.html

Well, celebration at Ferrari may be a bit too early as well. In the past few years the unwritten rule was never fear a quick Ferrari in the testing and practices.

[bauc]

The internet, a place of wonders

[Vasconia]

The last time they left the sport Brawn went on to win using their car with a Mercedes engine in the back, it doesn't get more embarrassing than that!

So in your opinion the rule change and double diffusers were irrelevant, it was the engine what made BrawnGP a winner...

And the double diffusers were invented by the aerodynamicists of ... Honda! =D>

They failed to build a WC contender car and they left the sport. Its indeed quite embarrasing as Honda is a big company, but the embarrassement was even bigger when the company wan´t capable of seeing that the 2009 Project was indeed excellent, Brawn did it.

[i70q7m7ghw]

The last time they left the sport Brawn went on to win using their car with a Mercedes engine in the back, it doesn't get more embarrassing than that!

So in your opinion the rule change and double diffusers were irrelevant, it was the engine what made BrawnGP a winner...

Nope not what I said at all. What I said was Honda built a championship winning car, except it won with a Mercedes badge on it! i.e. they got none of the recognition for it.

Ps. try reading

[Andres125sx]

So Honda desgined the car and then retired?

Maybe I´m wrong, but I was assuming they retired before investing on next season car as the huge rule change did imply huge R&D and huge investment, so they decided to retire before doing any more investment.

Then Brawn bought it, and designed a winning car taking advantage of the DD loophole


I´m wrong and it was Honda not Brawn?


PS: anycase we all are talking about the car, not the engine, so I can´t see the relevance of this reminder to bash Honda... again

[Vasconia]

So Honda desgined the car and then retired?

Maybe I´m wrong, but I was assuming they retired before investing on next season car as the huge rule change did imply huge R&D and huge investment, so they decided to retire before doing any more investment.

Then Brawn bought it, and designed a winning car taking advantage of the DD loophole


I´m wrong and it was Honda not Brawn?


PS: anycase we all are talking about the car, not the engine, so I can´t see the relevance of this reminder to bash Honda... again

If I am not wrong Honda decided to retire at a very late stage so the develoment of the new car was already on its way. It is believed that they had invested important amounts of money which helped to perfect the design of the famous double diffuser. Brawn only put enough money to pay the salaries and a minium evolution during the season which explains why they loosed their advantage.

[BosF1]

So Honda desgined the car and then retired?

Maybe I´m wrong, but I was assuming they retired before investing on next season car as the huge rule change did imply huge R&D and huge investment, so they decided to retire before doing any more investment.

Then Brawn bought it, and designed a winning car taking advantage of the DD loophole


I´m wrong and it was Honda not Brawn?


PS: anycase we all are talking about the car, not the engine, so I can´t see the relevance of this reminder to bash Honda... again

Alright, it is off topic but here is some interesting reading:

Honda's decision, announced in early December last year [2008], has undoubtedly cost the Japanese company hundreds of millions of pounds worth of publicity. More importantly, it left its former team staring at the precipice.
Through January and February, the employees at the team's base in Brackley had to watch as the other teams tested their new cars. And their frustration was heightened because their simulation data was telling them their car, which they thought might never see a race track, was dynamite.
"Weeks before the car got on the track," the source says, "we were told by one of the aero guys that we would be two seconds quicker than anyone else. "I knew we'd made a number of big steps over the cars we'd done before, but even so, we'd had two years of dogs, and I thought the bloody aerodynamicists had got their numbers wrong again."

I think the article makes it clear Honda had already invested a considerable amount of time, manpower and money in 'the 2009 car.
Something more 'on-topic' for those who think it's not that hard to switch engines:

What is less well known, though, is that the car is, in the words of my source, "a botch job".
It was designed for a Honda engine, and it was not until December that the team knew they would be using a Mercedes. That necessitated some pretty crude changes. "The chassis had the back six inches cut off to fit the engine in - the sort of thing you wouldn't normally do even with a test car," says my source. "And the gearbox was in the wrong place because the crank-centre height is different. There's a massive amount of compromise in the cars."
Those compromises introduced a significant performance deficit into the Brawn car, but it raced like that all year.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/blogs/andrewbenson ... brawn.html

And those engines were much less complicated than todays PU's.

[TommyF1]

http://www.autobild.de/artikel/formel-1 ... 54469.html

Google translate:

McLaren seems to want to draw serious consequences from the Honda crisis during the test drives in Barcelona . As AUTO BILD MOTORSPORT learned from a safe source, the British tradition team had already contacted Daimler and asked whether it would be possible to drive again with Mercedes engines from 2018 onwards. The contact was flown in from the highest level: McLaren-shareholder Mansour Ojjeh has thus personally knocked with his old partners.

At Mercedes , the revival of the partnership is clearly not averse. According to information from ABMS, the Daimler Board of Management should be open to the question openly. From 1995 to the end of 2014, McLaren had already been driving with engines from Stuttgart / Brixworth, won three World Championship titles with Mika Häkkinen in 1998 and 1999, and Lewis Hamilton in 2008 with Mercedes-Power.

[BosF1]

McLaren explore Mercedes engine option after Honda problems

McLaren have made an exploratory approach to Mercedes about engine supply in the wake of problems with partner Honda.
The move follows a dismal pre-season test programme for McLaren-Honda, in which the Japanese company's new engine was both unreliable and uncompetitive.McLaren are said to be evaluating options in the event the relationship with Honda cannot be made to work.
McLaren and Mercedes were unavailable for comment.

http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/39290908

More info in the article.

[Avocado]

Would you be happy with McLaren BMW?

[i70q7m7ghw]

So Honda desgined the car and then retired?

Maybe I´m wrong, but I was assuming they retired before investing on next season car as the huge rule change did imply huge R&D and huge investment, so they decided to retire before doing any more investment.

Then Brawn bought it, and designed a winning car taking advantage of the DD loophole


I´m wrong and it was Honda not Brawn?


PS: anycase we all are talking about the car, not the engine, so I can´t see the relevance of this reminder to bash Honda... again

No, wrong as others have already detailed. Not sure how you missed all of that unless you weren't following F1 in 2008/09 because it's a very well known story.

The point is, if Honda don't recover this, they probably won't be returning to F1 for a very very very long time.

And this is all starting to become very real...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39290908

[Thunder]

Guys we have a whole Thread dedicated to the McLaren PU Supplier switch Topic.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26051

[Vasconia]

If I am not wrong Honda decided to retire at a very late stage so the develoment of the new car was already on its way. It is believed that they had invested important amounts of money which helped to perfect the design of the famous double diffuser. Brawn only put enough money to pay the salaries and a minium evolution during the season which explains why they loosed their advantage.

No, wrong as others have already detailed. Not sure how you missed all of that unless you weren't following F1 in 2008/09 because it's a very well known story.

The point is, if Honda don't recover this, they probably won't be returning to F1 for a very very very long time.

And this is all starting to become very real...
http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39290908

Err sorry, but what BosF1 and other have mentioned confirms what I have said about Honda´s late retirement and that the car was already in a advanced level of design/develoment.

[i70q7m7ghw]

Err sorry, but what BosF1 and other have mentioned confirms what I have said about Honda´s late retirement and that the car was already in a advanced level of design/develoment.

Which is what I was saying?

EDIT: Ah sorry bad quote, my response was for Andre. We are in agreement.

[Thunder]

Ok you have been warned. There is a whole Thread dedicated to the McLaren PU situation and a possible Switch to Merc / BMW. Please use it.

viewtopic.php?f=1&t=26051&p=684756#p684756