Should McLaren return to Mercedes?

[The_table]

I meant from then until now without leaving.... i'm not THAT dumb

[geogate]

without getting too partisan about this:
why would Mercedes supply Mclaren? because they had allocation of engines for Manor.
Should Mclaren jump ship - well you can be sure of one thing, they would have a watertight clause for being able to if they do - and if it is water tight, it implies that Honda would not have fulfilled the terms of the contract...which is independent of whether you think McLaren are --- or not.

[GoranF1]

Whats funny and interesting is that Mercedes rumor came at the same day as Mika Hakkinen news.

It is just Ron Dennis disguised as Hakinnen to take control of Mclaren again!



But it is a bit strange indeed, but it was a stake owner who contacted Mercedes, not Mclaren directly?

I've read that Mansour Ojjeh made the call to Merc.

What if Honda and Mclaren have reached some kind of agreement to use 2017 as sabatical year for Honda to develop the PU for 2018 while Mercedes has agreed to step in and help their old parter Mclaren for 2017(Manor engines)

[torpor]

That McLaren is pointing fingers on them can be one reason for Honda pulling off. The other can be that they decided to paint the car in a design created by a preschooler. No sponsor can use pictures of that car for marketing purposes.
And don't come up with the Force India. This design is set by a big sponsor.

No one can expect a partner to exceed the most efficient power units ever built.

[geogate]

What if Honda and Mclaren have reached some kind of agreement to use 2017 as sabatical year for Honda to develop the PU for 2018 while Mercedes has agreed to step in and help their old parter Mclaren for 2017(Manor engines)

My guess is that would be Mclarens preferred option.
I think the Manor situation has been the catalyst here, and if something happens, it will be happening this year - soon

[GoranF1]

Were Manor suposed to get 2017 spec Merc engines?

[Pierce89]

Were Manor suposed to get 2017 spec Merc engines?

Yep. Manor was on a current year deal, same as the rest of Merc's customers.

[GoranF1]

Were Manor suposed to get 2017 spec Merc engines?

Yep. Manor was on a current year deal, same as the rest of Merc's customers.

MCL32 has a very small inlet on the roolhop, not sure that will work whit Merc engine...?

[domh245]

It is just Ron Dennis disguised as Hakinnen to take control of Mclaren again!



But it is a bit strange indeed, but it was a stake owner who contacted Mercedes, not Mclaren directly?

I've read that Mansour Ojjeh made the call to Merc.

What if Honda and Mclaren have reached some kind of agreement to use 2017 as sabatical year for Honda to develop the PU for 2018 while Mercedes has agreed to step in and help their old parter Mclaren for 2017(Manor engines)

I'm under the impression that a lot of Honda's issues seem to be with the engine when it is in the car and going around the track, so denying them any (legal) chance of running an engine for a year is a pretty bad way to go about developing a good PU for 2018

[Shakeman]

What if Honda and Mclaren have reached some kind of agreement to use 2017 as sabatical year for Honda to develop the PU for 2018 while Mercedes has agreed to step in and help their old parter Mclaren for 2017(Manor engines)

Less than zero chance of this happening, there's no way Merc would allow their current engines into a team with an ongoing contract with another engine supplier. In any case McLaren would need to design a new car to accommodate the Merc engine for this year, that too has a less than zero chance of happening.

McLaren's only choice is to stick it out with Honda and maybe have another engine lined up for next year or the year after.

[a1b2i3r45]

What if Honda and Mclaren have reached some kind of agreement to use 2017 as sabatical year for Honda to develop the PU for 2018 while Mercedes has agreed to step in and help their old parter Mclaren for 2017(Manor engines)

Less than zero chance of this happening, there's no way Merc would allow their current engines into a team with an ongoing contract with another engine supplier. In any case McLaren would need to design a new car to accommodate the Merc engine for this year, that too has a less than zero chance of happening.

McLaren's only choice is to stick it out with Honda and maybe have another engine lined up for next year or the year after.

It's not impossible.

So here is what it takes to switch F1 engines.
Phase 1. Answer the big general questions: What are the heat rejection figures? How are the oil and water cooled and where do the pipes go? What is the cooling layout? Are there areas in the sidepods that need re-allocating? How does the rear suspension fit with the new engine? How does it connect to the gearbox?
Phase 2. Answer the physical questions: Where are the drives, the pump drives, the shafts coming out of the engine to the fuel pump, the ERS drive? Sometimes things are built into the back of the chassis, moulded around the oil tank design for example and if they are well out with the new unit it could mean a new chassis design. This could also mean having to re-homologate the chassis with the FIA and repass crash tests.
Phase 3. Electronics: The control unit for the battery can be placed quite differently for different power units. Some place them above the battery. The battery is around 30cm x 30cm with a depth of around 120mm and is located underneath the fuel tank, just behind the driver. Moving its control unit could be a real pain.
Phase 4. Finer details: How do the wiring looms run? Everything is as tightly packaged as possible under the skin of an F1 car and modifications can require revisions to the bodywork and that means valuable wind tunnel time. Gear ratios are another key consideration. They are set for the season based on power and torque numbers. But a new engine will have different numbers and this may require new ratios. Some take 10 weeks, others 4 weeks and are fabricated by outside suppliers.
In the case of McLaren going for Option 3 ideally you would like to have a month to do the redesign and manufacturing and another month to test it on a chassis dyno rig. But manufacturers are sensitive about rival manufacturer’s staff being around when these things are tested.

https://www.jamesallenonf1.com/2017/03/ ... ens-shoes/

[Raleigh]

BBC are now reporting that McLaren has made informal contact with Mercedes over engine supply.

http://www.bbc.co.uk/sport/formula1/39290908

[torpor]

Maybe they are going to buy Mercedes power units and name them Honda.
If the other team runs with watch manufacturer branded engines McLaren can use a compact car manufacturer badge as well.

[Chuckjr]

Imo there's too many mass media sources pointing to this engine change for This story not to be significant. My guess is McLaren want to cut Honda partnership and take on Merc engines asap. Preseason testing was so bad and the mistakes so fundamental, McLaren is not willing for two more years of promises in development with no chance for wins-- much less championships.

I'm thinking McLaren are already making carbon fiber forms for the Merc engine and re-engineering all the plumbing. We have seen McLaren pull miracles before and I've complete confidence they can perform again. I would not be surprised if that Merc engine was in the back of that McLaren within 2 race weekends or less. Likely less. I think Honda maybe has thrown in the towel. Just my opinion based on a devastating preseason testing and now McLaren's move towards Merc. I could be completely wrong. No offense at all to Honda, i really think they have given it everything. I just think Honda simply do not have the time to develop the engine as Macca can't wait to win. They need to win now. If it was Sauber or Manor yes another two years development would be ok, but not McLaren.

Just my 2 cents.

[wunderkind]

I think Mercedes is willing to supply McLaren as a strong McLaren is good for the sport. But it will be done on a strict non-works basis. Also bear in mind that Mercedes-AMG F1 would probably not be where it is today had McLaren exercised its veto right and blocked Mercedes from supplying engines to Brawn GP in 2009.

I doubt McLaren can do anything before June/July at the earliest as they have to give Honda every courtesy and opportunity to make things work. The software side of things will be a nightmare for the McLaren and Mercedes engineers to work through with no testing allowed.

In the meantime, what is McLaren going to do with their Honda-branded team-wear? I'd hate to be John Allert (the McLaren brand director) now........

Last but not least, do we believe the Honda engine is McLaren's only problem?