Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
it is make sense that If honda create common Block for both ice and mguh? And seal it with thermal paste to give them very low COG? And what hapen if the vibration make the very thin seal if there is electrical shock from mguh in certain point? Will this short circuit turn the engine off immediately?
https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... f1-883423/“Obviously the problems we had in Barcelona limited our track time and put added pressure on our pre-season preparations, however, we were still able to generate a huge amount of useful data – as was McLaren,” Hasegawa added.
“Also, we were not dealing with lots of different problems, despite how it looked from the outside.
“Already while in Barcelona we were able to introduce some countermeasures and we proved the effectiveness of these during test two.
“In terms of performance, there is room for improvement with mapping before Melbourne in order to have better driveability.
“And at the same time we will continue to work on our development to generate more power from the PU.”
it will generate heat at about 1 kWglenntws wrote:......What many of you forget, is the heat that the MGU-H itself generates.
........However, if you think about the high power density which the MGU-H must have, it seems pretty hard to achieve acceptable temperatures. You would need strong insulation on the coil windings.
...... A bigger problem would be to dampen the shaft accurately, because interferences with the longitudinal vibrations of the engine seem programmed.
Again, sadly I'm not a engineer at HondaSingabule wrote:Hi glenntws, you starting give us 'food for thought'. Are u wazari san nephew?
but you idea is good.You are completely right. If this efficiency figure is right, then the biggest problem indeed would be keeing to MGU-H cool and Isolate it from the other hot areas.Tommy Cookers wrote:it will generate about 1 kWglenntws wrote:......What many of you forget, is the heat that the MGU-H itself generates.
........However, if you think about the high power density which the MGU-H must have, it seems pretty hard to achieve acceptable temperatures. You would need strong insulation on the coil windings.
...... A bigger problem would be to dampen the shaft accurately, because interferences with the longitudinal vibrations of the engine seem programmed.
(a prominent poster with EV involvement has shown a motor performance plot exceeding 99% efficiency)
insulation needs to be rather temperature resistant, rather mechanically strong, and rather good at insulating electrically
PTFE has a high temperature resistance
the shaft with rotor is doing over 100000 rpm so has big issues of its own
They are also testing with a Log style manifold for durability it seems. I think we should not be too cencerned about the alleged power numbers. Besides the obvious De-tuning there are too many factors at play.Mr.G wrote:http://papermodelers.sk/download/imgpl. ... 2b50c01ce6
Looks like they checking a lot of temperatures inside the PU (I've counted ~18 pcs). Those blue connectors looks like for thermal probes data logger...
This conversation will quickly go over my head, but with just a little research, this is what I found. I do not know amounts or if it could be sufficient protection.godlameroso wrote:How? What magnetic additives could you realistically use in oil In any significant quantity? Just curious.
PlatinumZealot wrote:They are also testing with a Log style manifold for durability it seems. I think we should not be too cencerned about the alleged power numbers. Besides the obvious De-tuning there are too many factors at play.Mr.G wrote:http://papermodelers.sk/download/imgpl. ... 2b50c01ce6
Looks like they checking a lot of temperatures inside the PU (I've counted ~18 pcs). Those blue connectors looks like for thermal probes data logger...
People take the word of mclaren as the absolute truth ...https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 4623926273 The electrical insulation problem is on the McLaren side, not Honda.
ziggy wrote:Agree with you, but we're talking about the "H in the V"dren wrote:Our newly wound stators operate at 65 C and are good to about double that. We have to actively cool them. I would expect even with better insulation, Honda operates their K at a lower temperature than 200 C.ziggy wrote: Do we know what temperature we are talking about? I doubt temperatures in the vee exceed 200 degree celsius. From experience I can tell, that the winding insulation starts to deteriorate at a much higher temperature, so maybe the vibrations cause the insulation to fail. Can be a cooling problem also, otherwise they would have that exact problem on the dyno.
Thermal ratings of insulation classes
These are the highest allowable stator winding temperatures for long insulation life.
Temperatures are total, starting with a maximum ambient of 40° C
Insulation class Maximum winding temperature, C
A 105°
B* 130°
F* 155°
H 180°
http://www.leeson.com/TechnicalInformat ... topic.html
If I remember correctly, wasn't Honda's K in their initial PU in 2015 oil cooled? I remember them having issues with a seal ring.
Electromagnetic coils of most typical electromagnetic devices are wound from copper magnet wire. Copper magnet wire
is available with many different types of insulation with the highest temperature insulation being a polyimide varnish
rated for operation at a maximum temperature of 450°F (230°C).
Various powder coatings are typically used as well as tapes and films of kapton, nomex, etc. None of the typical insulation materials will work in an ambient temperature environment of 1000°F (.500°C) There are some powder coatings available that are rated for operation up to 1000°F(.500°C). If the device generates no internal heat, these powder coatings will work.
http://www.firstmarkaerospace.com/pdf/vhtmotors.pdf
