Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[alexa]

More rubbish speculation about dumping Honda for a Merc unit... some interesting figures though. How legit though is up for debate.

Excerpt:
a brief comment from a McLaren spokesperson who said that preseason had been “challenging and disappointing,” before adding, “We are working with Honda to address shortcomings and deficiencies. Together with Honda, we are considering all options.”

If the British team were to part company with Honda, this would be less than straightforward -- the team currently receives around $100 million, free power units and a significant sponsorship package. Honda also pays half of the drivers' wages.

When compared to the $18.2 million that Mercedes charges customer teams, it is very difficult to see how it would be possible to make the finances add up; the team has been without a title sponsor since Vodafone left at the end of 2013.



Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one ... z4bXUBMgbX

It really is quite funny to see how many outlets are latching onto a section of a sentence. I don't think that spokesman could of emphasised WITH or in PARTNERSHIP or IN TANDEM WITH HONDA any more than he did..

$18.2 million per engine?

[taperoo2k]

http://papermodelers.sk/download/imgpl. ... 2b50c01ce6

Looks like they checking a lot of temperatures inside the PU (I've counted ~18 pcs). Those blue connectors looks like for thermal probes data logger...

They are also testing with a Log style manifold for durability it seems. I think we should not be too cencerned about the alleged power numbers. Besides the obvious De-tuning there are too many factors at play.

No point worrying about the PU power numbers until they've fixed the current problems as they won't know for sure what the power levels are until they can run it at full tilt without it breaking down. Which will only happen over the course of Grand Prix Weekends.
Also it's quite difficult to know what the exact problems are with this PU, we can make educated guesses at best. I'm willing to cut Honda a bit of a slack, it's a new design. If they don't fix the issues ? Then my patience will start to wear thin.

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 4623926273

The electrical insulation problem is on the McLaren side, not Honda.

People take the word of mclaren as the absolute truth ...

That would indicate that McLaren and Honda are not working as closely as say Mercedes does between it's Chassis and PU design departments. Anyway always take anything an F1 team or Manufacturer says with a pinch of salt.

[ollandos]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 4623926273

The electrical insulation problem is on the McLaren side, not Honda.

People take the word of mclaren as the absolute truth ...

yes the vibrations from honda engine broke all ers sustem and its is mclaren fault ....

[kasio]

https://twitter.com/AlbertFabrega/statu ... 4623926273

The electrical insulation problem is on the McLaren side, not Honda.

People take the word of mclaren as the absolute truth ...

yes the vibrations from honda engine broke all ers sustem and its is mclaren fault ....

there is no vibration and ers did not break and its nobodys fault. why do we have discussion about this?

[hurril]

People take the word of mclaren as the absolute truth ...

yes the vibrations from honda engine broke all ers sustem and its is mclaren fault ....

there is no vibration and ers did not break and its nobodys fault. why do we have discussion about this?

This forum has too much of this soccer fan-behaviour. I'm here for the content updates and the super-knowledgable nerds.

[HPD]

Has so little reliability that it breaks every 4 turns, "says mclaren"....

Hasegawa:
"It was suddenly powering down on the way of coming back.When there was no signs beforehand on telemetry and stoffel vandoorne reported "Power is gone", if you look at the data, Because the power was dropped to the car, I put the car back to the pit.The engine itself was turning, but several cylinders were dead. "

Clearly a mechanical problem, something was broken inside ICE (internal combustion engine).

This power unit was sent back to HRD Sakura in Japan and confirmed the damaged part two days later. Although I do not know the detailed cause yet, the power unit with the exact specification is running for 111 laps (28th lap of the first day at the afternoon, 11th lap of the afternoon, 72nd of the third day) in three days. Although Mr. Hasegawa is not saying anything, he seems to believe that it was not a fundamental problem related to the design, but was an irregular part in manufacturing and use of parts.
https://sportiva.shueisha.co.jp/clm/mot ... ndex_4.php

[GhostF1]

“Obviously the problems we had in Barcelona limited our track time and put added pressure on our pre-season preparations, however, we were still able to generate a huge amount of useful data – as was McLaren,” Hasegawa added.

“Also, we were not dealing with lots of different problems, despite how it looked from the outside.

“Already while in Barcelona we were able to introduce some countermeasures and we proved the effectiveness of these during test two.

“In terms of performance, there is room for improvement with mapping before Melbourne in order to have better driveability.

“And at the same time we will continue to work on our development to generate more power from the PU.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... f1-883423/

We should be taking this sentence from Hasegawa himself more seriously than the rubbish the media is fabricating and then sensationalising...
They had the same issue plague them throughout testing and Hasegawa himself stated it was quicker to change the entire PU (albeit with the same fault) so they can get more mileage for data than to locate the issue in the moment and sacrifice track time. Hence the large amount of PU changes, it was a choice they made.

Mix the above two statements from Hasegawa with a bit of your own logic and we actually have the possibility this PU is not as bad as we assume. If anything, it should throw more concern over to Renault who have had several various failures but flew under the radar because of the "Honda yearly problem story".

[PlatinumZealot]

More rubbish speculation about dumping Honda for a Merc unit... some interesting figures though. How legit though is up for debate.

Excerpt:
a brief comment from a McLaren spokesperson who said that preseason had been “challenging and disappointing,” before adding, “We are working with Honda to address shortcomings and deficiencies. Together with Honda, we are considering all options.”

If the British team were to part company with Honda, this would be less than straightforward -- the team currently receives around $100 million, free power units and a significant sponsorship package. Honda also pays half of the drivers' wages.

When compared to the $18.2 million that Mercedes charges customer teams, it is very difficult to see how it would be possible to make the finances add up; the team has been without a title sponsor since Vodafone left at the end of 2013.



Read more: http://autoweek.com/article/formula-one ... z4bXUBMgbX

It really is quite funny to see how many outlets are latching onto a section of a sentence. I don't think that spokesman could of emphasised WITH or in PARTNERSHIP or IN TANDEM WITH HONDA any more than he did..

$18.2 million per engine?

That is the price for the year. Includes engine services as well. The engine is non precious metals and labour of lowly paid engineers and technicians. A few big wigs too . but the companies don't make much money from selling the engines anyway. Mostly R&D and marketing. honda definitely for one is not making any money!

[Singabule]

“Obviously the problems we had in Barcelona limited our track time and put added pressure on our pre-season preparations, however, we were still able to generate a huge amount of useful data – as was McLaren,” Hasegawa added.

“Also, we were not dealing with lots of different problems, despite how it looked from the outside.

“Already while in Barcelona we were able to introduce some countermeasures and we proved the effectiveness of these during test two.

“In terms of performance, there is room for improvement with mapping before Melbourne in order to have better driveability.

“And at the same time we will continue to work on our development to generate more power from the PU.”

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... f1-883423/

We should be taking this sentence from Hasegawa himself more seriously than the rubbish the media is fabricating and then sensationalising...
They had the same issue plague them throughout testing and Hasegawa himself stated it was quicker to change the entire PU (albeit with the same fault) so they can get more mileage for data than to locate the issue in the moment and sacrifice track time. Hence the large amount of PU changes, it was a choice they made.

Mix the above two statements from Hasegawa with a bit of your own logic and we actually have the possibility this PU is not as bad as we assume. If anything, it should throw more concern over to Renault who have had several various failures but flew under the radar because of the "Honda yeayrly problem story".

Yeah not that bad. However their split turbo is not tested in real circuit, that my worries. Even merc admit that the split design is the most difficult to work. Not to worry about driverability and their ignition timing issue, should be better in Mel.

[J.A.W.]

I don't think Honda MotoGP is in the same framework or event talks to Honda F1. Completelly different parent companies within the conglomerate.

Obviously, correct me if I'm wrong.

In Honda's last F1 stint, one of their heads, Nakamura, came from the Moto GP side.

That doesn't mean they are the same company. How's the budget being allocated? Do they share their ERP framework?
That would tell us if they can be considered close business units able to share information.

No company shares information that is under one macro line of budget to another division.

AFAIK, this is not Honda ethos, the engineers do indeed transfer between divisions, & R&D/race outfits..

Case in point, when the super-expensive, highly technical, ideologically driven 4T NR 500 GP bike failed, expertise
from the 2T MX race program was utilized to produce Honda's long sought after, 1st 500cc World Championship..
..via the NS 500..

[mclaren111]

McLaren Website (Richard Mille Watch):

“There’s a lot of confusion in the marketplace about graphene, particularly in materials science, where it’s being touted as the next big step. When people talk about graphene, they’re not talking about a bulk material – you don’t get blocks or rolls of graphene – it exists at an atomic level, but can used to strengthen, toughen, and lighten carbon-fibre composites.
“Technically speaking, graphene is a single layer of carbon atoms arranged in a 2D hexagonal lattice, but for practical purposes, it comes in all sorts of forms, each having various advantages and disadvantages, depending on the application. And the process through which graphene is used to enhance resin systems is called nanoplatelet reinforcement.”

“We think the properties of graphene are pretty mind-blowing. Some of the mechanical properties of graphene-enhanced composites can be improved by double-digit percentages compared to regular carbon-fibre composites. In engineering, we often talk about improvements in terms of fractions of a per cent; to suddenly introduce improvements of this order is incredible, but it gives you a very clear perspective on just how much we’re discovering about the properties of graphene, and just how much it’s re-defining our existing understanding of materials science.

How about using exotic materials to fix their problems ?

[godlameroso]

Not allowed in the engine.

[ziggy]

Not allowed in the engine.

I we speculate that the H is really integrated in the V, do these same restrictions on the use of the materials apply to it? Or is the H considered separate from the ICE in this special example?

[godlameroso]

The MGU-H casing has to be a standard steel or aluminum or iron alloy, the innards of the MGU-H can be made of a nuclear reactor if you can manage it

[wuzak]

Not allowed in the engine.

I we speculate that the H is really integrated in the V, do these same restrictions on the use of the materials apply to it? Or is the H considered separate from the ICE in this special example?

I doubt that parts of the MGUH are part of the ICE.

It would need to be easily removable, in case the H needs replacing but the ICE is fine.

I can see where a tunnel is made in the block for the MGUH to fit through, but I'm not sure if that has any great advantage of having it external but as low as possible in the vee.