Mclaren ECU's contain a "hidden" feature?

[Kriss]

Hello,
Maybe this is a rumour, but if it be confirmed in my opinion FIA must investigate this whit every detail.
For me this seems like cheating, and another McLarens gate.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Exactly - if its proven, then yes it needs to be investigated. But as yet I see nothing which suggests it even exists.

EDIT:
So far all thats been said by any reliable sourses (autosport) is that Jarno Trulli rekons that some teams have their own systems of a "launch control-esque" type. No names have been dropped.

Nothing at all yet links this to the Mclaren standard ECU, except for the reporting from an independant italian F1 site (not nessecarily the most reliable or unbiased of sources lets be honest) claiming that Honda have found this hidden ECU feature. If that's the case why has this not been reported over some large F1 media sources? Such as autosport, GPupdate, grandprix.net (i think it's .net) etc? I mean, if this report is indeed factual, then this is BIG news and surely it would be a hot topic of discussion within the media by now?

Sounds to me like a load of nonsence. Lets look at the facts for second:
1. Independant Italian F1 site repots on hidden ECU feature
2. This topic is not taken up by any other media source - let alone major ones
3. By a coincidence, around the same sort of time as this rumour, Jarno has been reported saying he thinks some teams have found a way to circumvent the launch-control ban. Whilst dropping no names. This could mean one (or more) of 11 teams
4. At no point in his statement has Jarno mentioned this LC system in the same breath as the standard ECU, suggesting that he is talking about it as a seperate incident and/or he sees no link between these LC systems and the standard ECU.

As a result, taking into consideration the fact that this italian website is the only source of these rumours, and there is a small chance that they have misunderstood (or even exaggerated their story because of a love for Ferrari and/or resultant hatred for Mclaren) we could even suggest as much as to conclude the reportings of this website as "contaminated evidence" (or just plain lies lol) - as such I see no evidence to suggest that the Mclaren ECU has any hidden feature within it what-so-ever.

It's definately worth investigating, just so as to draw a line under it, as to leave NO DOUBT that it isn't there, but I'd be well and truly shocked if this hidden feature was found in the ECU software. Especially seeing as nobody else has reported the same story (being HUGE news - and a scandal which the press LOVE! LOL!!!)

[Ciro Pabón]

Does nobody here read the news you're arguing about?

Sorry, ben_watkins, you're wrong, that's a totally different news article. Trulli said that yesterday. You're arguing about what Trulli said in January 23th. He said this:

“I’m not going to name any names, but I think that some teams have already found a way to automate the starting procedure and reduce to the minimum the chance of spinning the wheels under acceleration,” he explained.

“I’m not saying someone’s cheating, even though we’ve received some conflicting information at Toyota. But having analyzed the behaviour on the track both now and in the tests in December, the changes between them are many - and in several cases suspicious.”

http://www.forumula1.net/2008/f1/f1-new ... trol-aids/

Now, would you like to reconsider your views? All the guys that jumped on McLaren automatically, please send your PMs asking for forgiveness to my mail box OR provide a link to Trulli saying something different... Hurry up, I'm in a good mood today, I might get a better view of you the faster you apologize, and you could get out of this with just a Hail Mary and a few Our Fathers.

[Tom]

Well a lawyer or similar mindset would immediately shoot you down here, Trulli said I’m not going to name any names meaning there's a 1/21 chance that Mclaren are the team they're talking about. Unless you can prove beyond reasonable doubt (what is this reasonable they speak of? I don't remember the last reasonable individual I met) that they are talking about one of the other 20 teams then you're unlikely to have much in your inbox.

[teecof1fan]

Benetton B194, anyone?

[Spencifer_Murphy]

All the guys that jumped on McLaren automatically, please send your PMs asking for forgiveness to my mail box.

That's kinda what I was getting at - nothing suggests these systems are a part of the Mclaren ECU. I think people were a bit fast to blame Mclaren, when we never know - it could be a mechanical system or something.

[Ciro Pabón]

Couldn't ANY team improve the start by changing the engine mapping? I don't think it's forbidden to have your own. I would try to tweak the lack of TC that way, I don't know what the more expert members have to say.

[nae]

old bmw road cars had a mechanical rev limiter
if the distributor arm got to fast the bob weight on it would fly out
and cut the spark , a crude but effective rev limiter.really nippy
when the springs got old an weak

so it is entirely possible to limit revs out with the ecu.

i would guess it wont be crude

it could be in the fuel pump as maximum grip under acceleration will
be known and thus maximum fuel flow will also be known so restricting how much
fuel it gets should reduce wheel spin

just guesses

oh no my bad it simply must be ron as nobody else in F1 is that clever

[Shaddock]

The standard ECU has 12 maps that the teams can program themselves (within reason). The easiest way of building in TC, is to configure one of the maps with retarded ignition & reduced fueling (TC map).

Then build into the other maps a plot of the maximum acceleration of the engine that represents the limit of traction in each gear. This can be done from testing. When the engine accelerates faster than this (ie wheel spin) the ECU swaps map to the TC map. This is a crude sort of TC that does not rely on any outside input ie, sensors on the wheels.

Mike Gascoigne has hinted that some teams may be doing this.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

So what you're suggesting shaddock is that the ECU is programmed so that "level 1" is with the engine almost as if it's tuned down, at a given point the ECU will switch to "level 2" with more power & torque, then level 3, 4, 5...

Almost like an automatic gearbox switches between ratios at a gievn point?

In essence the car's power is grandually unleashed in such a way that its only let loose when the car is traveling at such a speed that it can do so (almost) without spinning the wheels?

Or have I completely misunderstood?

[Shaddock]

So what you're suggesting shaddock is that the ECU is programmed so that "level 1" is with the engine almost as if it's tuned down, at a given point the ECU will switch to "level 2" with more power & torque, then level 3, 4, 5...

Almost like an automatic gearbox switches between ratios at a gievn point?

In essence the car's power is grandually unleashed in such a way that its only let loose when the car is traveling at such a speed that it can do so (almost) without spinning the wheels?

Or have I completely misunderstood?

Yes, the ECU can switch between any of the 12 maps. How many a team configures to assist with TC or fuel conservation is up to them.

I have 3 maps on my car that I can switch between, but I need to turn the engine off, or I'll fry the ECU

[axle]

The only limitation is that the map changing can't be automatic...the driver has to control it via the wheel...I believe this is why there are entry/mid/exit buttons on the Ferrari wheel.

[Shaddock]

The only limitation is that the map changing can't be automatic...the driver has to control it via the wheel...I believe this is why there are entry/mid/exit buttons on the Ferrari wheel.

But you could wire the ECU to the gear change paddles. 1st gear would give you map 1 with a limit on the amount of torque the engine produces (up to the limit of traction) at 19k the drive changes into 2nd and the engine swaps to map 2 with a higher torque limit all the way into top. This isn't TC in the true sense (no feedback), more launch control, but it would work. It would be relatively straight forward on a laptop before the race stared to fine tune these limits depending on track temp - humidity etc.

[bizadfar]

well at least FIA should be able to prove someone used it

[axle]

The only limitation is that the map changing can't be automatic...the driver has to control it via the wheel...I believe this is why there are entry/mid/exit buttons on the Ferrari wheel.

But you could wire the ECU to the gear change paddles. 1st gear would give you map 1 with a limit on the amount of torque the engine produces (up to the limit of traction) at 19k the drive changes into 2nd and the engine swaps to map 2 with a higher torque limit all the way into top. This isn't TC in the true sense (no feedback), more launch control, but it would work. It would be relatively straight forward on a laptop before the race stared to fine tune these limits depending on track temp - humidity etc.

Yes they could but then it's not under the drivers control as such and so that would make it illegal AFAIK.