Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[hemichromis]

If Alonso was running a detuned engine, why did he have to do a lot of fuel saving?
Could it be that they had to alter the combustion for reliability purposes?

[JonoNic]

If Alonso was running a detuned engine, why did he have to do a lot of fuel saving?
Could it be that they had to alter the combustion for reliability purposes?

Yes. Comments have been made about this topic earlier in the forum.

[Craigy]

Yes!
Ferrari - paraffin
Renault - burnt oil
Mercedes - sweet
Honda - by exception - no obvious smell

Someone needs to get samples of the air and chuck them into a chromatograph.

For the record, burning Ethylene glycol (coolant) can smell like maple syrup in engines. It's one of the markers of head gasket failure.
Just like anything else, with a particularly cleverly designed set of gaskets it's possible that some nefarious engineer might design something that leaks only at certain pressures, and some of this stuff ends up being combusted.

[hemichromis]

If Alonso was running a detuned engine, why did he have to do a lot of fuel saving?
Could it be that they had to alter the combustion for reliability purposes?

Yes. Comments have been made about this topic earlier in the forum.

Ah ok thanks, must have missed them. This is a fast moving topic!

[Brian Coat]

Has anyone in the public domain objectively analysed the intra-team power deltas and 2016-17 power deltas yet?

(Not including journalists and other 'civilians').

[J.A.W.]

That's the one. I think I can see the hydraulic lines and the position sensor. Since VGT is not allowed and throttle is after compressor I can t think of anything else other than guide vanes.

Me thinks that's a blow off/relief valve.

Looks like the Honda engine has the same lack of electric power that plagued them in 2015. The McLaren chassis broke instead of the engine though which I found ironic.

I don't think so - the valve would have to be after the diffuser so that you don't have a long-ish open ended pipe post-compressor. That actuator clearly does something at the inlet and it looks an awful lot like this.

http://www.ihi.co.jp/compressor/en/img/ ... ial_02.jpg
https://image.slidesharecdn.com/1900ser ... 1306545805

Here's one they did earlier... (German DVL)
http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi. ... 093272.pdf

Compressor efficiency re: 'vanes' - has been a research issue for decades..

[J.A.W.]

Yes!
Ferrari - paraffin
Renault - burnt oil
Mercedes - sweet
Honda - by exception - no obvious smell

Someone needs to get samples of the air and chuck them into a chromatograph.

For the record, burning Ethylene glycol (coolant) can smell like maple syrup in engines. It's one of the markers of head gasket failure.
Just like anything else, with a particularly cleverly designed set of gaskets it's possible that some nefarious engineer might design something that leaks only at certain pressures, and some of this stuff ends up being combusted.

True Craigy, a proper 'sniffer' test would be 'telling'... but oil is - amazingly- 'free' from F1 reg's proscription..

As for that "maple syrup" analog, just don't be tempted to put it in your coffee, as a flavoursome sweetner..

[Tommy Cookers]

'fuel' formulation is also rather free from the FIA proscription .....

lead is limited to 5 mg/litre or something ..... but other similarly effective organometallics are not limited in this way
eg diethyl telluride or nickel carbonyl
anyway, can't some equivalent effect be developed in-cylinder rather than in-fuel ?
oil normally passes to-and-fro across the rings

some legitimate main fuel ingredients eg 'triptane' are an order of magnitude more responsive to OM than is our normal 'motor fuel'


btw permanent liver damage from glycol ingestion (vetinaries have shown) is preventable by treatment with suitably timed ingestion of ethanol
maybe the reason that glycol was added to wine by at least one European country

[J.A.W.]

'fuel' formulation is also rather free from the FIA proscription .....

lead is limited to 5 mg/litre or something ..... but other similarly effective organometallics are not limited in this way
eg diethyl telluride or nickel carbonyl
anyway, can't some equivalent effect be developed in-cylinder rather than in-fuel ?
oil normally passes to-and-fro across the rings

some legitimate main fuel ingredients eg 'triptane' are an order of magnitude more responsive to OM than is our normal 'motor fuel'


btw permanent liver damage from glycol ingestion (vetinaries have shown) is preventable by treatment with suitably timed ingestion of ethanol
maybe the reason that glycol was added to wine by at least one European country

Well now to be sure TC, if Craigy was goin' on the 'craic' & it was 'Oirish java' he was havin'..

& yeah, that putative lead content, it does seem rather high, for a supposedly 'pump petrol-like' fuel..

[tom101]

I agree with the theory Honda did not use TJI head this weekend. Would explain the consumption problems.

The new engine comming in two months will teoricaly solve the vibrations and be more stable.

[Singabule]

https://twitter.com/tecnicaf1/status/845624917966118912

Yup, as we thought. Easy Man, PU2 is coming. At least this PU has the potential to score points tomorrow

It has got to finish the race first.....

No one believe my post before..

[HPD]

Where are the 30 km/h slower? or 120 HP less..

Minute 1:06 "bridge" (alonso releases the accelerator) and Ocon continues to accelerate
Enjoy the video

[godlameroso]

Yes!
Ferrari - paraffin
Renault - burnt oil
Mercedes - sweet
Honda - by exception - no obvious smell

Someone needs to get samples of the air and chuck them into a chromatograph.

For the record, burning Ethylene glycol (coolant) can smell like maple syrup in engines. It's one of the markers of head gasket failure.
Just like anything else, with a particularly cleverly designed set of gaskets it's possible that some nefarious engineer might design something that leaks only at certain pressures, and some of this stuff ends up being combusted.

True Craigy, a proper 'sniffer' test would be 'telling'... but oil is - amazingly- 'free' from F1 reg's proscription..

As for that "maple syrup" analog, just don't be tempted to put it in your coffee, as a flavoursome sweetner..

My municipality says as long as it's not full of rust, or dex-cool, to just dig a hole of at least 3ft in dirt and dump my used coolant there. Soil bacteria just treat the organic compounds as food. Used motor oil, no way that goes to the Auto Zone.

[vinuneuro]

How much is each 10hp worth today in lap time on average?

[radosav]

Where are the 30 km/h slower? or 120 HP less..

Minute 1:06 "bridge" (alonso releases the accelerator) and Ocon continues to accelerate
Enjoy the video

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=junJlf8iy0M&t=16s

Well, it is shorter straight than barcelona, with DRS Alonso goes 301km/h, and Ocon with DRS 320km/h