2021 F1 New Engine Formula

[Manoah2u]

So after today's meeting regarding F1's future, on which 8 engine manufacturers were present including Volkswagen representatives, the verdict seems to be that as of 2021, the goals are simpler and cheaper power units, and louder too.

check link:

http://www.gpupdate.net/en/f1-news/3512 ... r-engines/

Formula 1 has reached a "broad agreement" to work towards introducing simpler, cheaper and noisier engines from 2021, after the current cycle comes to an end.

Formula 1 has run 1.6-litre V6 power units since 2014, in a push to adopt a 'greener' image, but a meeting was held earlier this week to discuss options beyond 2020.

Friday's meeting, chaired by FIA President Jean Todt, was attended by current power unit manufacturers, as well as automotive manufacturers not currently involved in F1.

At the end of the meeting, a four-point plan was agreed:

- A desire to maintain Formula 1 as the pinnacle of motorsport technology, and as a laboratory for developing technology that is relevant to road cars
- Striving for future power units to be powerful, while becoming simpler and less costly to develop and produce
- Improving the sound of the power units
- A desire to allow drivers to drive harder at all times.

Todt reflected: "I was very pleased with the process, and the fact that so many different stakeholders were able to agree on a direction for Formula 1 in such an important technical area.

"Of course, now we must sit down and work through the fine details of exactly what the 2021 power units will be – but we have begun on the right foot, and I am looking forward to working through the process to come up with the best decision for Formula 1 into the future."

Todt recently ruled out a return to V10/12 engines.

It seems like this could already usher in the end of the V6T Hybrid era in 2020.
V10 and V12 engines are ruled out too.

This could mean a couple of things;

V6T is allowed to stay, and additionally, or instead, we might see:

V8 Turbo Hybrid
V8 Atmospheric Hybrid
V6 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-6 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-6 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-5 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-5 Atmospheric Hybrid
Inline-4 Turbo Hybrid
Inline-4 Atmospheric Hybrid

Assuming Atmoshperical engines were concidered 'permanently distinct' in F1, that would mean we would be looking into Turbo-only options. On the other hand, Turbo engines are complicated engines, especially in the Hybrid-combo's like we seen now.

As for the people starting to scream blood and murder that a straight 4-cylinder (turbo) could happen,
please do for all that is personal education seek up the mighty BMW F1 engines of the 80's, those were inline 4 cylinder turbos with 1200+ HP. That means these engines produced more than the BMW V10 engines famously propelling Montoya's BMW.

Personally, an inline-4 turbo engine would sound interesting to me. It would almost guarantee BMW's re-entry, as well as VW or Audi stepping in. Honda hopefully will stay when they fix their engine this year, Ferrari also had mighty 4 cylinders, and Mercedes will too, and obviously, the same would go for Renault, which initiated this concept long ago.

that would see:

Audi
BMW
Ferrari
Honda
Mercedes
Renault

and hopefully

Ford/Cosworth
Toyota

and perhaps

Aston Martin through RedBull

[Sevach]

One company present at the meeting was the independent Ilmor, i don't know if they were included in the math.


As much as i got used to what F1 has been the past couple of years i'm glad at the this change of course, starting with getting rid of the tokens and now with this engine formula.

[McMrocks]

I wouldnt mind the noise if the engines would just get lighter. F1 cars became really fat in the last decade. Biggest issue for me

[AMG.Tzan]

Maybe just abandoning fuel flow and fuel allowance and letting them go up to 17000rpm will solve the power and noise problems...also abandoning ERS and just going for a better spec KERS that will last for around 15-20 seconds around a lap will also solve the "cheap engines" problem and make them lighter (which should also be considered since cars have become over 100kg overweight in the last 10 years)!! Generally electrification of these engines is what drove costs so high!
One thing I don't want to lose though is competition between engine manufacturers...I hated the frozen V8s!! And to be honest I still want turbos...all this torque makes the cars go sideways and more difficult to put the power down even with this year's wider tires!!

[Juzh]

How about a V6 twin turbo without the hybrid and fuel flow nonsense?

[mclaren111]

One of the things that attracted me to F1 many years ago was the fabulous sound of the V12's & V10's

As you have the marketing P's (Product, Price, Place, Promotion & People), you have the racing S's (Sight, Sound, Smell & Sense). Without all of them present, F1 will fail / go backwards as it has for quite a few years now.

As F1 is an unique motor sport, I fail to see why it should be "green" or "road relevant".

The new 2017 cars looks much better (including the proper sized tyres), but still sounds like a lawnmower. And until that is addressed properly, F1 will keep loosing fans !!!

[Facts Only]

It always makes me laugh when they say the engines are too reliable, it's such a ridiculous statement.
Why would we come to work and do a bad job? Unless they makes us do some Vodka shots each morning or replace us all with monkeys it's not going to happen. Why is unreliability even good? Would a grid full of McLaren Honda's make a good race?

And that's not a cheap.shot at Honda, what their situation shows is that with an unreliable engine you just have to keep turning the power down and down and down just to finish the race. Unreliability = Slower Car.

A lot of people seem to have this (imagined) view that in days gone by the cars were on the ragged edge and the 'real men's drove them flat out 100% of the time. Those drivers did exist but they were beaten to championship s by people like Keke Rosberg, Prost and Lauda who knew that bringing a car home was more important that one lap heroics.

[fenix4life]

At the end of the meeting, a four-point plan was agreed:

- A desire to maintain Formula 1 as the pinnacle of motorsport technology, and as a laboratory for developing technology that is relevant to road cars
- Striving for future power units to be powerful, while becoming simpler and less costly to develop and produce
- Improving the sound of the power units
- A desire to allow drivers to drive harder at all times.

I don't think you can select an engine which is compatible with those 4 points.
To be honest, I don't care about the enige noise. I would rather have them full electric in a couple of years.
But I'm not really a fan of shows like tractor pulling and other things where the basic idea is make noise and just noise.

Enige noise <> great race.
It might be part of the previous experience but don't forget we are no longer in the age of coal and petrol.
We are in the 21th century.

- laboratory for developing technology that is relevant to road cars
This means, electric (battery of hydrogen) engines and even autonomous. Investing in a pure petrol enige is not relevant for road cars.
So for point one: at least (the very least) is a hybrid enige.
- simpler and less costly to develop and produce
With the ICE and introduce a fully electric drive train. Less parts (eg transmission,..)
- ....


Those four points mentioned in the list are just a contradiction on their own.

[gdogg371]

A higher revving hybrid with no fuel flow restrictions sounds interesting, but:

1) How much louder would that be?
2) How much extra power would that likely generate if all of the other aspects of the hybrid technology remained unchanged?

[ME4ME]

Why not continuing in the previous thread?
viewtopic.php?f=4&t=24125&start=315

[roon]

If F1 becomes a laboratory for road-relevant technologies, and curated toward mass-satisfaction of the nebulous construct of "the fans," I think this would create room for a new series to be born which would be more prestigious. Divorced from these requirements and concerned more with less-regulated competition. The problem is the venues, which are at the limits of safety. Top level motorsports keep having their rules tweaked in order to slow the cars down and/or curate drama via artificial position changes. The tracks themselves need to be updated such that faster laptimes can continue to be pursued without compromise to safety. Tracks that can see laptimes halved safely should provide some more years of open competition.

[rgava]

"A desire to maintain Formula 1 as the pinnacle of motorsport technology, and as a laboratory for developing technology that is relevant to road cars"

So, let's see what can be relevant for road cars:

• ¿Plenty of power and simple? < > "Striving for future power units to be powerful, while becoming simpler and less costly to develop and produce"

• ¿Noisy? < > "Improving the sound of the power units"

• ¿To be able to drive flat out all the time? < > "A desire to allow drivers to drive harder at all times"

IMHO this is political buls...t

If they really want to develop road relevant technologies, then:

• low noise,

• low emissions,

• low fuel consumption,

• high endurance,

• efficiency,

• reliability,

• cost

are to be considered.

As a personal preference I'm a big fan of technology and I believe noise is attractive for "old fashioned" fans and not a 21st century asset.
I also like to see innovation going on. I think a fix amount of fuel for the race and technological freedom is preferable to encourage innovation, but I recognize it can be extremely expensive.

[skoop]

Guys, why the anic about road relevant technologies?
According to AMuS they want to get away from the road car relevancy. The only important thing that should be able to cross over is efficiency and consumption (German version):

Ein erster Gesprächspunkt war die Serien-Relevanz. Sie soll in Zukunft nur noch in Bezug auf den Verbrauch und den Wirkungsgrad entscheidend sein, muss aber nicht mehr unbedingt Technologien beinhalten, die in den Straßenautos der Zukunft eingebaut werden. Ross Brawn begründete die Abkehr von der bisherigen Philosophie damit, dass ein Formel 1-Auto wegen seiner offenen Räder vom Luftwiderstand und der Aerodynamik her weit von der Serie entfernt ist und deshalb auch nicht krampfhaft haben müsse wie im Straßenauto.
(http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 55986.html)

[FLuidd]

How about a V6 twin turbo without the hybrid and fuel flow nonsense?

I suggest for 2020

-remove the back wng

---

Add :

- 1.9l twin turbo v8

- 1 cm minimum ride height

- 600 kg minimum weight

- 10 cm higher and 5 cm wider diffusers

- 5 cm higher nose

- 30% larger exahaust diameter

- remove the hard and medium compound tyres and have only US SS and S

- max engine rev 22.000 rpm

- 6 gears and reverse


This is Formula 1

[diffuser]

I don't know when but F1 will just evolve into Formula E.

Once electric vehicals become the norm, nobody will want to be associated with Gas pu.

I think they should go full out electric with fuel powered pu to generate electricity to make it to the end.

If they go to a twin turbo v8 i'll stop watching and move on to FE.