Gene fears Renault are sandbagging

[manchild]

Monday 18th February 2008

Ferrari test driver Marc Gene is concerned that Renault and Fernando Alonso may have been sandbagging during recent winter tests.

While Ferrari and McLaren have dominated the timesheets in the build-up to the season, Renault have often found themselves just inside the top six, roughly half a second off the pace.

But while this may be of some concern to Alonso's fans, Gene reckons it's his rivals who need be more worried as the Spaniard and his team could be hiding their true pace.

"We will see what happens with Fernando (Alonso) and whether the surprise at the Australian GP comes from Renault," he said.

"Although in the tests they have not been on top, they already knew in April last year that their car wasn't working and turned their attention to 2008.

"Perhaps we are seeing a wolf in sheep's clothing and Fernando will be in front."

Alonso, though, will face some stiff competition from Ferrari as Gene claims the F2008 could win the World titles for the Scuderia.

"I believe we are going to have a good car but we'll have to see how the others do," he told Spanish daily Marca.

"The atmosphere (within in the team) has improved as Ferrari won the title in 2007 and therefore aren't under as much pressure as last year when there were a lot of uncertainties."

[teecof1fan]

Hey Manchild,

I read that today too...They may well be sandbagging, but personally I can't see them (Fernando in particular) on the top step of the podium. Either way, I've suspected that Alonso will be ahead of Kubica and the two Williams come Melbourne (I say Kubica in particular because he's been outperforming Heidfeld*). So personally, I think if they are sandbagging it will only mean they will be able to challenge the McLarens. Plus, that would be in line with what Fernando has been saying during testing; that is to challenge for podium finishes. Of course they have yet to debut their top-secret w-wing, but my opinion remains unchanged!


*Kubica has consistently outperformed Heidfeld during winter testing, and I think that's partly because Nick has had to change his driving style ( see question #7 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64834 ) A change in driving style is something Kubica had to deal with too, only last year with the F1.07...Let's see, anyway..."That's why they run the races."

[jaho101]

I think Renault may get close, but they're not going to be challenging Ferrari or Mclaren much, their risks wit the aero are too great and they'll either work one day, or be crap the next. Personally, I only expect the mid-field to change a bit, bit only in 2009 will the pecking order get interesting again (and perhaps a Honda resurgence?).

[bizadfar]

Hey Manchild,

I read that today too...They may well be sandbagging, but personally I can't see them (Fernando in particular) on the top step of the podium. Either way, I've suspected that Alonso will be ahead of Kubica and the two Williams come Melbourne (I say Kubica in particular because he's been outperforming Heidfeld*). So personally, I think if they are sandbagging it will only mean they will be able to challenge the McLarens. Plus, that would be in line with what Fernando has been saying during testing; that is to challenge for podium finishes. Of course they have yet to debut their top-secret w-wing, but my opinion remains unchanged!


*Kubica has consistently outperformed Heidfeld during winter testing, and I think that's partly because Nick has had to change his driving style ( see question #7 http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/64834 ) A change in driving style is something Kubica had to deal with too, only last year with the F1.07...Let's see, anyway..."That's why they run the races."

sorry to say but that article is old news. There a much more recent one few days ago with Nick saying the car balance and drivability is just as good as the F1.07

[teecof1fan]

That's all well and good but I was giving my reason for Robert outpacing Nick, I wasn't saying anything about the balance of the car.

And the name of the topic isn't "Let's nitpick Teeco's comments" it's "Gene fears Renault are sandbagging" so if you have any comments about that we would all enjoy hearing them!

[mx_tifoso]

Gene at this point is pretty much a promo driver for Ferrari, and sees test drives extremely rarely, so I wouldn't put much thought into what he says about competitors pace. Since from what I know he has seen very little, or no testing with the F2008.

About Renault sandbagging, I would doubt it as well, since they have not been able to progress as much as would be expected from a top team. Instead Renault have been puting back together all the pieces after last seasons unexpectedly disappointing pace that left the team in a confused state. So regardless of having Alonso back in a race seat I don't anticipate race winning improvements just yet.

Although it would be great for F1 if Renault proved out to be sandbagging and actually have better pace than they have shown so far. A more competitive form this season would improve the show and provide us fans with a wider variety of possible winners. Even just a wider variety of drivers that reach the podium would be great; the usual red, white, and grey seem to get rather boring after a while.

After all... "The harder the conflict, the more glorious the triumph" (Thomas Paine)

[bettonracing]

Favorable sandbagging scenario: in 2006 BMW seemed to like topping the Fri & Sat practice sessions but weren't particularly impressive in 2007 practice sessions. It was rumored that they sandbagged during practice only to show their form in quali and on race day (i.e. in 2007).

Unfavorable sandbagging scenario: Apart from the occasional on track battle with the slowest of the front runners, BMW never really challanged the top two teams in 2007...

Maybe Renault is sandbagging to surprise the 2nd tier teams?

Conspiracy theory: Marc knows he may work w/ Alonso in the future and he's trying to be nice from now...

Or maybe Marc's just trying to divert some of the attention away from the Ferarri camp...

Regards,
Kurt

P.S. I think I've filled my monthly quota of ignorant posts in 2 threads...

[megz]

You can't sandbag quickly! BMW either ran VERY light on Fri and Sat practice or everyone else ran with a good amount of fuel.

[vyselegend]

Renault are'nt sandbagging.

They admited last year half season that they decided to drop their habit of always testing with rather high fuel load (which is different from sandbagging, I think sandbagging is not just running heavy on fuel, but also carrying some extra weight, which is unlikely by our days...).

There can be an advantage hidding your game when you're in position to strike, but it's pointless when you're struggling to follow the pace of the front. Appart maybe if you're trying to seduce some sponsors, but that's not Renault's problem at the moment.

I think they will be closer to the front than last year, and they'll be faster coming at Melbourne than now, because they are just starting the "performance development" part of their program, having completed "reliability tests" part succesfully.

They'll be potentially chalenging BMW who are unconvincing up to now, but I see the main surprise come from "underdogs" Red Bull & Williams.
I expect a lot of Nico Rosberg. He was really impressive last year. That's where my money goes...

[bettonracing]

You can't sandbag quickly! BMW either ran VERY light on Fri and Sat practice or everyone else ran with a good amount of fuel.

The 'sandbagging' was in 2007 when they weren't running impressively quick in the practice sessions.

They admited last year half season that they decided to drop their habit of always testing with rather high fuel load (which is different from sandbagging, I think sandbagging is not just running heavy on fuel, but also carrying some extra weight, which is unlikely by our days...).

Not that I think Renault is doing it, but the [current] definition of sandbagging includes any method intended to avoid quickest laptime. Not just by adding extra weight.

Regards,

Kurt

[bizadfar]

That's all well and good but I was giving my reason for Robert outpacing Nick, I wasn't saying anything about the balance of the car.

And the name of the topic isn't "Let's nitpick Teeco's comments" it's "Gene fears Renault are sandbagging" so if you have any comments about that we would all enjoy hearing them!

You're the one that brought it up and if you want to keep going fine by me.

You weren't saying about the balance of the car, but Nick was complaining exactly of that which caused him to drive in a different way, IE Style.

[dumrick]

I think that everybody is, like each year, trying to read too much from test times and Marc has nothing better to do (doesn't he have a long-run Peugeot test session to attend somewhere?)

Until Melbourne, what is required from the drivers most of the time is a control pace, the kind of pace that it's fast enough to get data from, but that can be reproduced lap after lap after lap, for adequate analysis purposes. And there is a testing program. Teams will be looking at temperatures, wear, steering lock, throttle position, but only laterally at lap times.

Let's wait until they get down there, shall we?

[mx_tifoso]

AutoSport- Alonso says podiums not realistic

From what Alonso says in the article above, Gene definately believes more in Renault's immediate success than him.

Alonso reckons the top teams still remain Ferrari, McLaren, and BMW. So I pressume from what he has said, that Renault may be in fourth place behind BMW.

[Rob W]

From what Alonso says in the article above, Gene definately believes more in Renault's immediate success than him.

Yeah.. I wonder what is going on in Alonso's thinking... is he playing it all down a little too much?

R

[Giblet]

I think sandbagging in this day and age is not helpful to a team. The engineers need to test the car at its absolute limits, so the driver can then tweak it to his style to help make it faster.

I dont see why sandbagging and losing all that valuable data would be helpful.

People are scared of Big Red because we see them going quickly.