Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[JuanjoTS]

With more power they have to change the final drive. I am sure because the current one is way too short if they want to be able to be faster

İf they are shifting earlier than planned rpm because of vibrations and in the same time if there is lack of power, those both is cause of low max speed. Not last drive.
When they achieve to have expected power and reach to rpms they want, I am sure 30 km is not need so much rpm. I know there are forum members can calculate this, I am just giving example, 30 km speed does not need 300 rpm or may be just about 300 rpm. İf they have 12.100 now and without vibration problem if they have 12.500 rpm they could have highest max speed.

The problem is the opposite, Etusch. They are always running too many revs, shifting later than normal. They basically stay between 11000 and 12600 most of the time, while optimum power would be something like 10400-12000. The (resonance?) problems appear around 10500rpm, apparently.
So, if and when they fix it and get the power back, as 8th gear is now, to reach 330 km/h they need to be at 12000 rpm, but by that point, they have lost significant power.
Note: 30km/h is approximately 1200 rpm.

My opinion is that just turning the PU to the optimum torque / power point could earn 50 hp +/- and reduce the consumption

[toraabe]

With more power they have to change the final drive. I am sure because the current one is way too short if they want to be able to be faster

İf they are shifting earlier than planned rpm because of vibrations and in the same time if there is lack of power, those both is cause of low max speed. Not last drive.
When they achieve to have expected power and reach to rpms they want, I am sure 30 km is not need so much rpm. I know there are forum members can calculate this, I am just giving example, 30 km speed does not need 300 rpm or may be just about 300 rpm. İf they have 12.100 now and without vibration problem if they have 12.500 rpm they could have highest max speed.

The problem is the opposite, Etusch. They are always running too many revs, shifting later than normal. They basically stay between 11000 and 12600 most of the time, while optimum power would be something like 10400-12000. The (resonance?) problems appear around 10500rpm, apparently.
So, if and when they fix it and get the power back, as 8th gear is now, to reach 330 km/h they need to be at 12000 rpm, but by that point, they have lost significant power.
Note: 30km/h is approximately 1200 rpm.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04689.html

Exactly . They have to shift later than optimum, due to oscillations. Now since the driveshaft broke in the grand prix, as I said before flexing...

[63l8qrrfy6]

İf they are shifting earlier than planned rpm because of vibrations and in the same time if there is lack of power, those both is cause of low max speed. Not last drive.
When they achieve to have expected power and reach to rpms they want, I am sure 30 km is not need so much rpm. I know there are forum members can calculate this, I am just giving example, 30 km speed does not need 300 rpm or may be just about 300 rpm. İf they have 12.100 now and without vibration problem if they have 12.500 rpm they could have highest max speed.

The problem is the opposite, Etusch. They are always running too many revs, shifting later than normal. They basically stay between 11000 and 12600 most of the time, while optimum power would be something like 10400-12000. The (resonance?) problems appear around 10500rpm, apparently.
So, if and when they fix it and get the power back, as 8th gear is now, to reach 330 km/h they need to be at 12000 rpm, but by that point, they have lost significant power.
Note: 30km/h is approximately 1200 rpm.

http://www.auto-motor-und-sport.de/form ... 04689.html

Exactly . They have to shift later than optimum, due to oscillations. Now since the driveshaft broke in the grand prix, as I said before flexing...

Are you sure it wasnt twisting ?

[harjan]

Running them above optimal rev range is primarily a bad influence on fuel consumption. I expect these these engines to have a relatively flat torque line, so power wise there isn't much to be won by running them in correct range.

It's good to see the chassis is class A- if they can find 75-100 bhp they're in the top 6.

[toraabe]

Running them above optimal rev range is primarily a bad influence on fuel consumption. I expect these these engines to have a relatively flat torque line, so power wise there isn't much to be won by running them in correct range.

It's good to see the chassis is class A- if they can find 75-100 bhp they're in the top 6.

The maximum torque is probably around 10500 and max HP at 11500-12000 ( fuel flow restrictions )
Remember being able to get your tourqe at a lowest possible RPM is always what you want.
Just reving your engine above the sweetspot brings nothing but less power, and more fuel consumption.

http://www.frontierpower.com/images/mak ... nginea.jpg

[kasio]

By competitive I mean on par with Renault both power and reliability wise.

well i guess we dont want to be on par with renault reliability wise. we are allready better we should get on par with Merc imho on that matter.

[etusch]

Running them above optimal rev range is primarily a bad influence on fuel consumption. I expect these these engines to have a relatively flat torque line, so power wise there isn't much to be won by running them in correct range.

It's good to see the chassis is class A- if they can find 75-100 bhp they're in the top 6.

The maximum torque is probably around 10500 and max HP at 11500-12000 ( fuel flow restrictions )
Remember being able to get your tourqe at a lowest possible RPM is always what you want.
Just reving your engine above the sweetspot brings nothing but less power, and more fuel consumption.

http://www.frontierpower.com/images/mak ... nginea.jpg

This was shared here before

[wuzak]

By competitive I mean on par with Renault both power and reliability wise.

well i guess we dont want to be on par with renault reliability wise. we are allready better we should get on par with Merc imho on that matter.

How do you figure that?

Renault have had 6 cars in 2 GPs.
All 6 Renault powered cars finished in China.
4 finished in Melbourne, but one that did not finish was due to a brake issue.

Ricciardo did not finish in Melbourne. The reason for his retirement was given as Power Unit, but he only replaced the Control Electronics for China. SO his power unit is quite OK.

Meanwhile Vandoorne replaced his turbocharger and MGUH for Melbourne.

Hardly seems like Honda are superior to Renault on reliability.

[Abarth]

[...]The maximum torque is probably around 10500 and max HP at 11500-12000 ( fuel flow restrictions )
[...]

What makes you think that max HP is at higher than 10'500? (max fuel flow is reached at 10'500)

Only reason they rev higher is to not fall much below 10'500 when upshifting, in order to have always max fuel flow (=max power) available for acceleration.

[Tommy Cookers]

maximum permitted fuel rate is reached at 10500 rpm
but they don't necessarily take the full rate there, maybe it's only used at somewhat higher rpm ?

[HPD]

A rather difficult translation.. Let's see if anyone can translate better

https://jp.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-%E ... 9F-891989/

McLaren · Honda of the Chinese Grand Prix which ended in retirement with two cars while running within the winning range. After the race, I asked Mr. Yusuke Hasegawa of Honda about the story.

F1 After the race of the Chinese Grand Prix finishes, Yusuke Hasegawa, Honda's F1 project general manager, responded to the interview.

It was also expected that the Chinese Grand Prix will be pretty tough before the war. But in qualifying, Fernando Alonso is 13th and Stelle Bandon is 16th fastest approaching to Q2 advance. According to good strategy and the skill of Alonso in the final, he showed the performance of running around 6th and 8th.

However, as a result Bando was fuel pressure, Alonso was hit by a drive shaft trouble and could not finish.

First of all, Hasegawa talks about Bando's trouble, "Fuel suddenly has come to pass".

"As a symptom, the pressure of the fuel has dropped, it means that the fuel ceases to come by any cause, because it is not a problem on the engine side, so I think it is a problem somewhere in the fuel tank"

"This kind of problem is quite happening, even if the gas is missing, but this time it is not a gas deficiency indeed ... so I will know if it was the last lap."

"I was told that Sthel was" rebooted (restarted) and I managed to do something? ", But that was not the problem."

On the other hand, Alonso had a problem with the drive shaft as described above and stopped the machine. It was during a fierce battle with Toro Rosso's Carlos Saints Jr.

"Fernando had a fast pace and I think that if I could go there, I got enough points."

"There are parts that were helped by the driver, but as with the total potential of the car, including that, we had enough power to compete for points."

"Sometimes it was a dump (the road was a little wet), but I was running as it was in dry qualifying, so the pace was not bad, of course some people dropped due to the wet road surface Because it was helped relatively, because it is. "

Hasegawa says the current car's potential is "between 13th and 20th counts."

"Actually, I feel somewhere between 13 and 20. I can go within a point range for a moment, I will not say I will not get points, I can not say that. "

As I mentioned at the beginning, we also heard some expectations that in Shanghai it will be a rather tough battle. Especially with a long straight line, it will be overwhelmed by many machines ... there were also such views. In fact, however, Alonso succeeded in suppressing his rivals. Hasegawa asked about this, he replied as follows.

"It's not that bad as you all say, I think that I will enter the point as if I can earn points or not as much as last year, but it is not that level that we were aiming for So it is said that it is largely out of expectation. "

Also, the trouble that occurred in the final of this time was not caused by Honda's power unit. Although troubles related to the power unit have decreased, on the other hand, troubles caused by the McLaren side seem to be noticeable. About this, Hasegawa said,

"We are doing as McLaren Honda including everything, but no one can deny that the machine is the most important factor in being slow, so including reliability and performance, more That means we must do our best. "

[ENGINE TUNER]

maximum permitted fuel rate is reached at 10500 rpm
but they don't necessarily take the full rate there, maybe it's only used at somewhat higher rpm ?

Of course they do, it makes no sense not to. If they wanted to run lower fuel than allowed it would be much more advantageous to just run at the lower rpm that corresponds to the lower fuel rate according to the fuel rate formula in the regulations. It would be more efficient and allow them to run more boost which would also give more TERS harvesting.

There is absolutely no reason to run less than 100kg/hr fuel rate at or above 10.5k rpm

[ENGINE TUNER]

Running them above optimal rev range is primarily a bad influence on fuel consumption. I expect these these engines to have a relatively flat torque line, so power wise there isn't much to be won by running them in correct range.

It's good to see the chassis is class A- if they can find 75-100 bhp they're in the top 6.

These engines use the same amount of fuel regardless the rpm over 10.5k rpm, so the only reason running above the optimal rev range would increase fuel consumption is because of the lower power being produced and so the longer throttle times and time down the straight.

There is plenty of power to be gained by running in the correct range, as well as lower overall fuel consumption, as well as increased harvesting, as well as a lower starting weight on the start grid from using less fuel over the course of the race, Which then leads to improved tire wear and maybe even smaller brakes or less brake cooling, etc, etc, etc. It constantly compounds itself.

[godlameroso]

"We are doing as McLaren Honda including everything, but no one can deny that the machine is the most important factor in being slow, so including reliability and performance, more That means we must do our best. "

[/quote]

So the engine is the weak link, but the problems encountered in China were not engine related.

Like I said a while back car is still in egg stage, but the shell is starting to crack open now.

[mwillems]

Running them above optimal rev range is primarily a bad influence on fuel consumption. I expect these these engines to have a relatively flat torque line, so power wise there isn't much to be won by running them in correct range.

It's good to see the chassis is class A- if they can find 75-100 bhp they're in the top 6.

These engines use the same amount of fuel regardless the rpm over 10.5k rpm, so the only reason running above the optimal rev range would increase fuel consumption is because of the lower power being produced and so the longer throttle times and time down the straight.

There is plenty of power to be gained by running in the correct range, as well as lower overall fuel consumption, as well as increased harvesting, as well as a lower starting weight on the start grid from using less fuel over the course of the race, Which then leads to improved tire wear and maybe even smaller brakes or less brake cooling, etc, etc, etc. It constantly compounds itself.

I'm not sure they'd start with less fuel. Wouldn't they do less fuel saving and go faster, with the same fuel?
Also, if they are on a long straight and going into higher revs to get that last little bit of speed, surely they would be using more fuel at that point, not regardless of the RPM? More revolutions means more fuel injections, no?