Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[Joseki]

https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 8102122496 https://twitter.com/andrewbensonf1/stat ... 1498681344

[Jerrycobra]

how can the MGU-H ruin the whole engine? Did it maybe disintegrate like a grenade and damage the block/ heads? I remember there was talk that the MGU-H is possibly integrated into the block vs just being bolted on as a separate unit.

[63l8qrrfy6]

how can the MGU-H ruin the whole engine? Did it maybe disintegrate like a grenade and damage the block/ heads? I remember there was talk that the MGU-H is possibly integrated into the block vs just being bolted on as a separate unit.

Most likely it contaminated the oil with debris which then damaged the scavenge pump and maybe main/ big end bearings. They might have filters after the scavenge pump though.

[godlameroso]

The update isn't ready, they just can't make it work, it's incredibly frustrating, the same thing that Renault went through in 2015, going backwards with the engine and just struggling. At least the Red Bull chassis was decent, here both the engine and and chassis are not great.

[loner]

so with hot weather mgu-h go kabooom this PU seems to be so tight and mgu-h place not perfect
modifications needed , right ?!!

[wuzak]

Mercedes engine specialist wolf zimmerman and cedric cornebois move to ferrari (for 2015). ferrari was worst engine in 2014. One way or another, Ferrari learned why the Mercedes' engine is so good. And they fixed their engines.

It is necessary to learn their secrets like ferrari. Otherwise there is no chance for Honda. They reach Renault level at most.
true or false but Bernie said: "Bernie Ecclestone continues to claim Mercedes have given assistance to Ferrari, stating in an interview the world champions gave “a lot of information” to their Italian rivals."

The first thing to note was the timing. The two gentlemen arrived from Mercedes after the bulk of the work for the 2015 had been done.

When they arrived they, apparently, acknowledged that the fundamentals of the 2015 Ferrari engine were sound. The 2014 engine was compromised by trying to make it fit better in the chassis. They had a smaller turbine and compressor and completely missed the importance of the MGUH. But the changes to these were well in hand when the Mercedes specialists were poached.

Ferrari were able to turn around their program quickly, largely through their own efforts without outside help. Honda seemed to be on a path of improvement, but they keep stumbling.

[wuzak]

how can the MGU-H ruin the whole engine? Did it maybe disintegrate like a grenade and damage the block/ heads? I remember there was talk that the MGU-H is possibly integrated into the block vs just being bolted on as a separate unit.

I think that it is quite possible that it grenaded, sending shrapnel into the engine.

Still don't believe it is integrated into the block. It would need to be easily removed to enable them to mix and match PU components late in the season.

[godlameroso]

Mercedes engine specialist wolf zimmerman and cedric cornebois move to ferrari (for 2015). ferrari was worst engine in 2014. One way or another, Ferrari learned why the Mercedes' engine is so good. And they fixed their engines.

It is necessary to learn their secrets like ferrari. Otherwise there is no chance for Honda. They reach Renault level at most.
true or false but Bernie said: "Bernie Ecclestone continues to claim Mercedes have given assistance to Ferrari, stating in an interview the world champions gave “a lot of information” to their Italian rivals."

The first thing to note was the timing. The two gentlemen arrived from Mercedes after the bulk of the work for the 2015 had been done.

When they arrived they, apparently, acknowledged that the fundamentals of the 2015 Ferrari engine were sound. The 2014 engine was compromised by trying to make it fit better in the chassis. They had a smaller turbine and compressor and completely missed the importance of the MGUH. But the changes to these were well in hand when the Mercedes specialists were poached.

Ferrari were able to turn around their program quickly, largely through their own efforts without outside help. Honda seemed to be on a path of improvement, but they keep stumbling.

Honda's problem was they started with a flawed concept, and now they're back to square one, so all the progress they made since last year was discarded for the new power unit, so now they have to develop it all over again. The lack of tokens doesn't seem to have helped them any because of how slow development is.

On a scale of 1 to 10
Mercedes is at almost at 8 as far as total potential of the current formula, Honda started 2015 at a 1, made it to 3 by 3/4ths into the year, then 4 at the start of 2016, and ended 2016 with a 5.25, now in 2017 they're back to 4, and should be back to 5 by Barcelona, they want to get to 9 but probably not possible this year, most they can get from this year is a 6, or 7 if they have some big breakthrough.

For comparison 5 is the Ferrari power unit in 2015, and they improved to 6 in 2016, and this year they're at 7.5, Renault was at 4 in 2015, 5.75 in 2016, and they're at 6 now on the verge of 6.5.

Mercedes started at 4 in 2014, made it to 5 near the end of 2014, started 2015 at 5.5 and ended at 6, in 2016 they were at 6.5 and ended at 7, and now they're at or very close to 8.

[JonoNic]

So this MGU-H and PU failure came at a bad time for McLaren Honda. No definite update or new PU ready yet for this PU change and when it is (after testing next week?) they so close to taking PU related penalties for the rest of the year.

Sent from my SM-A700F using Tapatalk

[JuanjoTS]

It looks like they will not need a new ICE, actually the mgu-h bearings are not lubricated with ICE oil. The seizing of the mgu-h could have caused the turbo not to let the exhaust gases come out freely and the air in the intake did not enter freely, I guess the feeling is as if your engine breaks, the loss of power must have been brutal.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... bahrain-gp

[63l8qrrfy6]

It looks like they will not need a new ICE, actually the mgu-h bearings are not lubricated with ICE oil. The seizing of the mgu-h could have caused the turbo not to let the exhaust gases come out freely and the air in the intake did not enter freely, I guess the feeling is as if your engine breaks, the loss of power must have been brutal.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... bahrain-gp

How do you know that turbo / mguh bearings are not lubricated with engine oil ?

[JuanjoTS]

It looks like they will not need a new ICE, actually the mgu-h bearings are not lubricated with ICE oil. The seizing of the mgu-h could have caused the turbo not to let the exhaust gases come out freely and the air in the intake did not enter freely, I guess the feeling is as if your engine breaks, the loss of power must have been brutal.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... bahrain-gp

Tu

How do you know that turbo / mguh bearings are not lubricated with engine oil ?

It's not turbo / mgu-h, the turbo has its own bearings lubricated with ICE oil and the mgu-h has its own with independent grease lubrication , they are connected by the axis of the Mgu-h, which is not the same as sharing bearings. I do not know for sure, it's an assumption

[63l8qrrfy6]

It looks like they will not need a new ICE, actually the mgu-h bearings are not lubricated with ICE oil. The seizing of the mgu-h could have caused the turbo not to let the exhaust gases come out freely and the air in the intake did not enter freely, I guess the feeling is as if your engine breaks, the loss of power must have been brutal.

http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12433/ ... bahrain-gp

Tu

How do you know that turbo / mguh bearings are not lubricated with engine oil ?

It's not turbo / mgu-h, the turbo has its own bearings lubricated with ICE oil and the mgu-h has its own with independent grease lubrication , they are connected by the axis of the Mgu-h, which is not the same as sharing bearings. I do not know for sure, it's an assumption

Right, 125000 rpm grease bearings.

[JuanjoTS]

Tu

How do you know that turbo / mguh bearings are not lubricated with engine oil ?

It's not turbo / mgu-h, the turbo has its own bearings lubricated with ICE oil and the mgu-h has its own with independent grease lubrication , they are connected by the axis of the Mgu-h, which is not the same as sharing bearings. I do not know for sure, it's an assumption

Right, 125000 rpm grease bearings.

Can be slip bearing with oil for their release, the point is that my opinion is that their lubrication is independent of ICE.

[63l8qrrfy6]

It's not turbo / mgu-h, the turbo has its own bearings lubricated with ICE oil and the mgu-h has its own with independent grease lubrication , they are connected by the axis of the Mgu-h, which is not the same as sharing bearings. I do not know for sure, it's an assumption

Right, 125000 rpm grease bearings.

Can be slip bearing with oil for their release, the point is that my opinion is that their lubrication is independent of ICE.

So they have another oil pump and another oil tank for their mguh alone ?
Why?