Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[godlameroso]

Any FIA document that shows which power unit elements drivers have taken for today, that ought to clear everything up.

[JuanjoTS]

Right, 125000 rpm grease bearings.

Can be slip bearing with oil for their release, the point is that my opinion is that their lubrication is independent of ICE.

So they have another oil pump and another oil tank for their mguh alone ?
Why?

Electrical isolation.

[nevill3]

Alonso has taken a new ICE, Turbo, MGU-H and MGU-K

http://www.fia.com/file/55662/download?token=SExgdrXd

These are his second units this season

[wuzak]

Any FIA document that shows which power unit elements drivers have taken for today, that ought to clear everything up.

http://www.fia.com/file/55662/download?token=SExgdrXd

The following drivers will use a new internal combustion engine (ICE) for the remainder of
the Event:
Number Car Driver Previously used ICE
14 McLaren Honda Fernando Alonso 1
55 Toro Rosso Carlos Sainz 1
The internal combustion engine used by the above drivers is one of the four new internal
combustion engines allowed for the 2017 Championship season and this is in conformity
with Article 23.4a of the 2017 Formula One Sporting Regulations.
The following drivers will use a new a new turbocharger (TC) for the remainder of the
Event:
Number Car Driver Previously used TC
14 McLaren Honda Fernando Alonso 1
55 Toro Rosso Carlos Sainz 1
The turbocharger used by the above drivers is one of the four new turbochargers allowed
for the 2017 Championship season and this is in conformity with Article 23.4a of the 2017
Formula One Sporting Regulations.
The following drivers will use a new motor generator unit-heat (MGU-H) for the remainder
of the Event:
Number Car Driver Previously used MGU-H
14 McLaren Honda Fernando Alonso 1
55 Toro Rosso Carlos Sainz 1
The motor generator unit-heat used by the above drivers is one of the four new motor
generator units-heat allowed for the 2017 Championship season and this is in conformity
with Article 23.4a of the 2017 Formula One Sporting Regulations.
The following drivers will use a new motor generator unit-kinetic (MGU-K) for the
remainder of the Event:
Number Car Driver Previously used MGU-K
14 McLaren Honda Fernando Alonso 1
55 Toro Rosso Carlos Sainz 2
The motor generator unit-kinetic used by the above drivers is one of the four new motor
generator units-kinetic allowed for the 2017 Championship season and this is in conformity
with Article 23.4a of the 2017 Formula One Sporting Regulations.

[63l8qrrfy6]

Can be slip bearing with oil for their release, the point is that my opinion is that their lubrication is independent of ICE.

So they have another oil pump and another oil tank for their mguh alone ?
Why?

Electrical isolation.

That does not make any sense at all.

[glenntws]

A seperate pump for the MGU-H isn't necessary and there would be no effect of "electrical Isolation" which isn't even needed.

It's hard to find a point, why the MGU-H collapsed. My bet is that the axial bearing went away and the compressor-wheel decided to do a very close meet with it's housing (many particles which then killed the ICE internals). Even though I'm sure the MGU-H housing is embedded in the ICE engine block, it would be a suprise if shrapnels killed the block. I didn't hear about any kind of big bang or something like that which would be the result out of the explosion.

[godlameroso]

It's hard to find a point, why the MGU-H collapsed. My bet is that the axial bearing went away and the compressor-wheel decided to do a very close meet with it's housing (many particles which then killed the ICE internals). Even though I'm sure the MGU-H housing is embedded in the ICE engine block, it would be a suprise if shrapnels killed the block. I didn't hear about any kind of big bang or something like that which would be the result out of the explosion.

Do they use ceramic or ceramic hybrid bearings? Journal bearings? Or common steel cage bearings?

[63l8qrrfy6]

It's hard to find a point, why the MGU-H collapsed. My bet is that the axial bearing went away and the compressor-wheel decided to do a very close meet with it's housing (many particles which then killed the ICE internals). Even though I'm sure the MGU-H housing is embedded in the ICE engine block, it would be a suprise if shrapnels killed the block. I didn't hear about any kind of big bang or something like that which would be the result out of the explosion.

Do they use ceramic or ceramic hybrid bearings? Journal bearings? Or common steel cage bearings?

I am not sure ceramic elements are allowed. As for journal bearings vs ball bearings there are too many considerations - not sure there is an obvious choice.

[godlameroso]

It's hard to find a point, why the MGU-H collapsed. My bet is that the axial bearing went away and the compressor-wheel decided to do a very close meet with it's housing (many particles which then killed the ICE internals). Even though I'm sure the MGU-H housing is embedded in the ICE engine block, it would be a suprise if shrapnels killed the block. I didn't hear about any kind of big bang or something like that which would be the result out of the explosion.

Do they use ceramic or ceramic hybrid bearings? Journal bearings? Or common steel cage bearings?

I am not sure ceramic elements are allowed. As for journal bearings vs ball bearings there are too many considerations - not sure there is an obvious choice.

5.17.7 Reciprocating and rotating components :
b) Rolling elements of rolling element bearings must be manufactured from an iron based alloy or from a ceramic material.

They certainly are.

[harjan]

Van Doorne taken off the grid, engine problem. Not sure whether he can start.

[Joseki]

5 engine failures in 3 days.

[mwillems]

And now everybody should remember the posts Wazari did over the last months and years.

Two options for me:
1) Honda engineers like him are really that clueless
2) someone had fun to play a game here

I think Wazari said the head needed redesigning and he estimated 4 months.
I believe hasegawa has essentially said the same since then.

[loner]

Well after watching Zak interview , few things...
- no new spec PU in Bahrain test
- they are expecting a good PU to come with the European races but to see the full power you need to wait until SPA and after...

[PlatinumZealot]

[Del Boy]

DNF for Alonso. Just terrible, these regulations are making Honda and McLaren look like amateurs. I can't even be hopeful anymore, 3 races in and they are still backmarkers with no improvement in sight. This season is offically a write off, can't even finish a race.

Its official just confirment on dutch television, honda is getting external
Help from mercedes to get them in the right direction.

I hope this is true Honda can't do it on their own.

I'm beginning to believe the vibration issues must be coming from the compressor - turbine shaft. With so many MGUH failures coming on the back of Honda working so hard to fix the vibration issues? I remember when Mercedes introduced this split turbo design Scarbs commented that vibration was the main obstacle to overcome.
If I'm right then Mercedes can help to overcome this problem without giving Honda all of the secrets. In fact bearing manufacturers (SKF, INA FAG, Timken, NSK, etc) probably have some insight they would just need Merc to allow divulge the design details.