Mercedes Power Unit Hardware & Software

[J.A.W.]

Recent Bosch inlet port water injection tech blurb; https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0CVvwGZYFyQ
I'd be curious to know if the H2O also helps keep the inlet valve clean, by scalding problematic deposits off...

[Mansell89]

Apologies if this veers away from current conversation or if it should be in a separate thread, but what is going on in terms of relative performance of Mercedes AMG (works team) and all those customer Mercedes PU teams?

Why is it the works team constantly find the "magic button" in quali whilst all the customer teams fail to make the step?

I know as a works team they will have better chassis integration but there seems a glaringly obvious power difference too. Is it purely software related and if so, does anyone know any specifics?

And of course the big question- is it fair to customer teams?

[wuzak]

Apologies if this veers away from current conversation or if it should be in a separate thread, but what is going on in terms of relative performance of Mercedes AMG (works team) and all those customer Mercedes PU teams?

Why is it the works team constantly find the "magic button" in quali whilst all the customer teams fail to make the step?

I know as a works team they will have better chassis integration but there seems a glaringly obvious power difference too. Is it purely software related and if so, does anyone know any specifics?

And of course the big question- is it fair to customer teams?

It could be that Mercedes don't have to use the magic button in the earlier parts of qualifying, while the others do.

[Facts Only]

They all get the same engine and the same modes.

There's no glaring ly obvious power difference, just a much better car than FIF1 and WF1

[mrluke]

They all get the same engine and the same modes.

There's no glaring ly obvious power difference, just a much better car than FIF1 and WF1

How can you say such a thing? Mercedes is a one trick pony, everybody knows the only reason a team is the fastest or the slowest is purely down to bhp. The other 600 people they employ are just making up the numbers.

/sarcasm.

I think fans find it easy to blame an "engine" because it is seen outside of the control of the team and therefore a reason why it is not their favourite teams fault that they are getting beaten.

[PlatinumZealot]

As a Mercedes supporter I didn't beleive the magic button over the last three years but after today's race i can definitely say that this "scramble boost" mode is definitely there. There is just too much a difference in race and wuali pace for it to be ignored!

Let's knock noggins and uncover the workings of this mode.

[The_table]

It is strange that they can't turn up the engine for one or two laps during the race to bust out a gap...
(It seems they only turn up the engine for Q3....so either it's torture for the engine or they are using a very limited resource...)
What fluids are they allowed to top up before the race?(Between quali and race) all of them?
Are fuel and oil analysed in detail by the FIA (Or other fluids for that matter)?
Are the FIA allowed to poke around in the engine bay to see any secret reservoirs or stuff like that?

[wuzak]

What fluids are they allowed to top up before the race?(Between quali and race) all of them?
Are fuel and oil analysed in detail by the FIA (Or other fluids for that matter)?
Are the FIA allowed to poke around in the engine bay to see any secret reservoirs or stuff like that?

I believe they can top up working fluids like hydraulic oil, brake fluid and lubricating oil in parc ferme.

Fuel is analysed in detail by the FIA. Their is an approval process which each new fuel mix must go through. The FIA do physical and chemical tests to make sure it conforms to the regulations, which are quite tight on chemicals allowed. The FIA creates a chemical fingerprint of the fuel, which can be checked at track. During a race weekend the FIA will ask for and test fuel samples after qualifying and the race. The rules require there to be 1l of fuel available for extraction at the end of each of these, and that is why cars are required to return to the pits under their own power in qualifying.

The physical properties required to be checked are density and how that relates to temperature. This is important for the fuel flow meter calibrations.

There are not any rules on the composition of oils in the rules at this point in time.

Yes, the FIA are allowed to poke around the engine bay. In fact, I'm sure the FIA could order the entire car to be stripped down if they suspected foul play, including asking the team to take apart the PU.

[giantfan10]

They all get the same engine and the same modes.

There's no glaring ly obvious power difference, just a much better car than FIF1 and WF1

What they do not get is the same engine management software which is not mandated by the FIA.
Manufacturers are only required to give costumers identical engines.
That my friend is the key to it all.
In addition after each race the customer engines are all gathered up by the manufacturer and sent back to the factory.

[Muniix]

What fluids are they allowed to top up before the race?(Between quali and race) all of them?
Are fuel and oil analysed in detail by the FIA (Or other fluids for that matter)?
Are the FIA allowed to poke around in the engine bay to see any secret reservoirs or stuff like that?

I believe they can top up working fluids like hydraulic oil, brake fluid and lubricating oil in parc ferme.

Fuel is analysed in detail by the FIA. Their is an approval process which each new fuel mix must go through. The FIA do physical and chemical tests to make sure it conforms to the regulations, which are quite tight on chemicals allowed. The FIA creates a chemical fingerprint of the fuel, which can be checked at track. During a race weekend the FIA will ask for and test fuel samples after qualifying and the race. The rules require there to be 1l of fuel available for extraction at the end of each of these, and that is why cars are required to return to the pits under their own power in qualifying.

The physical properties required to be checked are density and how that relates to temperature. This is important for the fuel flow meter calibrations.

There are not any rules on the composition of oils in the rules at this point in time.

Yes, the FIA are allowed to poke around the engine bay. In fact, I'm sure the FIA could order the entire car to be stripped down if they suspected foul play, including asking the team to take apart the PU.

So obviously no fossil fuel goes anywhere near these engines, it's a nightmare to combust effectively.

I read somewhere in a research paper with prechamber ignition and ethanol they have achieved 56% peak TE with 90 Celsius at 1.77 bar, 1.7 FE ratio, 17.3:1 CR and 33% egr from memory.

Thinking they would be optimising liner temperature/ heat flux into coolant for optimal TE, It has an effect on efficiency and friction. Could they be using steel liner with steel pistons? Small mass gain may get most back with improved fuel efficiency.

Also of interest to some is the production of a replacement 1914 Deluge F1 engine block here in Australia;

https://blog.csiro.au/chitty-job-3d-pri ... up-engine/

They 3D printed the sand cast moulds.

[shady]

Ill leave this here:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H5jei8Y19vI

Old V8s but.. FIA still mandates that the fuels cant be too far off whats available. (Probably why Shell has put out new retail fuels since the '14 change)

[Facts Only]

They all get the same engine and the same modes.

There's no glaring ly obvious power difference, just a much better car than FIF1 and WF1

What they do not get is the same engine management software which is not mandated by the FIA.
Manufacturers are only required to give costumers identical engines.
That my friend is the key to it all.
In addition after each race the customer engines are all gathered up by the manufacturer and sent back to the factory.

Yes they do, they all get the same. I can tell you that for sure my friend. The 'engine management software' is all the same, it's all run by HPP engineers and all teams get use of all modes.

Alot of the difference is the fact that FIF1 and WF1 are in a different fight to MGP, they are locked in a struggle with each other and a tight midfield, running the harder modes risks failure and shortens engine life, something neither can afford so they choose a more conservative strategy, MGP on the other hand are fighting an all out pace war with Ferrari and are pushing engine to the limit running the highest modes possible.

The only difference is that MGP get priority on updated parts, although that's a double edged sword as if it goes wrong they take the pain.

Are they really all taken back to HPP between races...? I didn't know that! (Note: Sarcasm)

[Tommy Cookers]

[quote=shady]
....... FIA still mandates that the fuels cant be too far off whats available.
[/quote]

except things like octane number being unlimited
(it has been limited to a 'best road fuel' value from 1958 until 2014)

[PlatinumZealot]

Not a chemist. But if I may... Is it possible to have drastly different burn rate proprties for between two fuels? (If that is the proper term). Say you have a qualifying fuel that is dyanamite but has higher burn temperture and poor fuel mileage... And on the other hand a race fuel that burns a bit more cooler and stable and produces better atomization perhaps ot some crap like that?

Thoughts?

[wuzak]

....... FIA still mandates that the fuels cant be too far off whats available.

except things like octane number being unlimited
(it has been limited to a 'best road fuel' value from 1958 until 2014)

I don't think that last part is true.

Since the turbos were banned in the late 1980s the octane rating has been regulated, as far as I know. Before that?

In the turbo era the fuels became rather exotic.