2017 Scuderia Ferrari F1 Team - Ferrari

[Vanja #66]

If downforce doesn't play too much to anyone's advantage here, then how was RB running so close to Merc and Ferrari? Are you suggesting Renault is in the same league as Merc and Ferrari in terms of PU? If downforce doesn't play too much to anyone's advantage, why was Williams, FI and Haas not in play here despite having the best PUs on the grid?

If you don't have great deal of downforce, then you are not at front.

Whoa there, mate, easy on the questions, can't handle that much of them... Still, let me try...

If downforce doesn't play too much to anyone's advantage here, then how was RB running so close to Merc and Ferrari?

RB is lacking downforce (their own words) compared to Merc and Ferrari, not only the outright power. Because Bahrain is a power track, downforce deficit won't be as hampering as in China for instance. In Australia Max was 1.3s off the pole time. In China Dani was 1.35s off. Here he was 0.8s behind pole time. Hulk is an even better example, here he was 1s behind pole time, in China he was 1.9s and in Australia he didn't make it to Q3. It's not hard to see that Renault is lacking downforce compared to RB, but should be on same level (if not above) on the power front. So it's my view that downforce deficit wasn't detrimental in Q3, but rather power (and set-up). This is what I was implying in the post you quoted.

Are you suggesting Renault is in the same league as Merc and Ferrari in terms of PU?

Not at all, as you can read in the part above.

If downforce doesn't play too much to anyone's advantage, why was Williams, FI and Haas not in play here despite having the best PUs on the grid?

Because they don't? Do you believe Merc and Ferrari are giving them away everything? It's also a matter of fuel and lubrication, isn't it? Do Williams have huge Petronas logos all over the car? However, let's compare Massa to Merc in qualy so far: Australia deficit 2.2s, China deficit 1.8s, Bahrain deficit 1.3s.

If we say that race-ready set-up cost Lewis 0.2-0.3s in Q3, that still increases Ferrari gap to Mercedes to a lot more than wrong set-up. Vettel was on par with Bottas in Aus and China and here he was half a second slower. I honestly don't see it as pure and simple set-up difference... Then again, I ain't no track-side set-up expert...

[ME4ME]

Kimi needs to do something about the start of the race. This includes qualifying position, start and position after lap1. His pace in free air seems solid, his last stint in Bahrain indicated that. However, he always puts himself in the position where he loses too much time too the leader. Bahrain should've been an easy podium for Kimi and a 1-3 for the team.

http://www.f1fanatic.co.uk/2017/04/16/2 ... test-laps/

[Sevach]

Mercedes had quite an advantage in straight line speed in Bahrain, during the first stint i repeatedly saw Vettel getting a good exit from T1 but Bottas breaking away the tow, on the restart Bottas made up a lot of ground on Vettel.

I wonder how much of it is power, how much it is drag...

[giantfan10]

Mercedes had quite an advantage in straight line speed in Bahrain, during the first stint i repeatedly saw Vettel getting a good exit from T1 but Bottas breaking away the tow, on the restart Bottas made up a lot of ground on Vettel.

I wonder how much of it is power, how much it is drag...

And after the pit stop Vettel pulled out a 6 second gap on bottas.
nothing is absolute in F1,there are too many variables that we as viewers have no clue about to make some of the conclusions that we make : )

[Sevach]

Mercedes had quite an advantage in straight line speed in Bahrain, during the first stint i repeatedly saw Vettel getting a good exit from T1 but Bottas breaking away the tow, on the restart Bottas made up a lot of ground on Vettel.

I wonder how much of it is power, how much it is drag...

And after the pit stop Vettel pulled out a 6 second gap on bottas.
nothing is absolute in F1,there are too many variables that we as viewers have no clue about to make some of the conclusions that we make : )

Vettel was certainly quicker through a lap than Bottas, i was talking specifically about straight line speed.

[giantfan10]

Mercedes had quite an advantage in straight line speed in Bahrain, during the first stint i repeatedly saw Vettel getting a good exit from T1 but Bottas breaking away the tow, on the restart Bottas made up a lot of ground on Vettel.

I wonder how much of it is power, how much it is drag...

And after the pit stop Vettel pulled out a 6 second gap on bottas.
nothing is absolute in F1,there are too many variables that we as viewers have no clue about to make some of the conclusions that we make : )

Vettel was certainly quicker through a lap than Bottas, i was talking specifically about straight line speed.

Ferrari was running more rear wing than Mercedes and a monkey seat while Mercedes had no monkey seat and their medium/low downforve spoon wing.
How does the added drag for Ferrari fit into your straight line speed conclusion?

[Juzh]

And after the pit stop Vettel pulled out a 6 second gap on bottas.
nothing is absolute in F1,there are too many variables that we as viewers have no clue about to make some of the conclusions that we make : )

Vettel was certainly quicker through a lap than Bottas, i was talking specifically about straight line speed.

Ferrari was running more rear wing than Mercedes and a monkey seat while Mercedes had no monkey seat and their medium/low downforve spoon wing.
How does the added drag for Ferrari fit into your straight line speed conclusion?

Again someone brings up the drag nonsense. Saying as if you had the actual numbers. Just because merc runs a spon wing does not mean it's less draggy or that ferrari is in fact more. I can go the other way and ask you if had actually seen the mercedes car and it's one million appendages all over it, but no, lets just concentrate on the RW only.

Merc has more power in any trim, quali/race it doesn't matter. A considerable amount more in fact. And that can actually be seen from the onboards. It's not even close.
Even if ferrari can match them closely on peak power, their ability to sustain that level is still behind.

[Juzh]

Mercedes had quite an advantage in straight line speed in Bahrain, during the first stint i repeatedly saw Vettel getting a good exit from T1 but Bottas breaking away the tow, on the restart Bottas made up a lot of ground on Vettel.

I wonder how much of it is power, how much it is drag...

The straight after turn 2/3 is not drag dependant. Top speed there is no more than 300 kph. It's also true that no one was able to whore slipstream on the mercedes there because they'd simply drive away from everyone, while they were easily able to do so.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Vettel was certainly quicker through a lap than Bottas, i was talking specifically about straight line speed.

Ferrari was running more rear wing than Mercedes and a monkey seat while Mercedes had no monkey seat and their medium/low downforve spoon wing.
How does the added drag for Ferrari fit into your straight line speed conclusion?

Again someone brings up the drag nonsense. Saying as if you had the actual numbers. Just because merc runs a spon wing does not mean it's less draggy or that ferrari is in fact more. I can go the other way and ask you if had actually seen the mercedes car and it's one million appendages all over it, but no, lets just concentrate on the RW only.

Merc has more power in any trim, quali/race it doesn't matter. A considerable amount more in fact. And that can actually be seen from the onboards. It's not even close.
Even if ferrari can match them closely on peak power, their ability to sustain that level is still behind.

Other than just aerodynamic variations between Ferrari and Mercedes, one should also consider that W08 is 5 kg heavier than Ferrari. Even if the aero profiling of both cars (aero numbers) are same, W08 would still have the handicap and their PU should be creating MORE grunt to make W08 on par with F70.

[marvin78]

Has Ferrari confirmed that their car is not too heavy or do you make this conculsion out of the fact, that they didn't say anything about it (like about everything else with the car)?

[giantfan10]

Ferrari was running more rear wing than Mercedes and a monkey seat while Mercedes had no monkey seat and their medium/low downforve spoon wing.
How does the added drag for Ferrari fit into your straight line speed conclusion?

Again someone brings up the drag nonsense. Saying as if you had the actual numbers. Just because merc runs a spon wing does not mean it's less draggy or that ferrari is in fact more. I can go the other way and ask you if had actually seen the mercedes car and it's one million appendages all over it, but no, lets just concentrate on the RW only.

Merc has more power in any trim, quali/race it doesn't matter. A considerable amount more in fact. And that can actually be seen from the onboards. It's not even close.
Even if ferrari can match them closely on peak power, their ability to sustain that level is still behind.

Other than just aerodynamic variations between Ferrari and Mercedes, one should also consider that W08 is 5 kg heavier than Ferrari. Even if the aero profiling of both cars (aero numbers) are same, W08 would still have the handicap and their PU should be creating MORE grunt to make W08 on par with F70.

Ferrari has won 2 out of three races with an excellent chance to have made it 3 out of 3 and yet we sit here talking about how much faster the Mercedes car is.
who needs a faster car or more grunt or whatever it is you claim Mercedes has more of when all you have to do is apply pressure and watch Mercedes fold like a cheap suit?
There are several cars faster than the Ferrari in a straight line too bad for you merc fans this is not a drag racing contest .
There is corner speed/downforce, tire management and team strategy that matter a whole lot more than how fast any given car is in a straight line and so far this year Ferrari leads the drivers championship and constructors championship. i will leave you fellas to debate your what ifs and whatever other excuse you need to come up with to pump up the second place mercedes.

[Juzh]

"drag"

https://youtu.be/APJToKMg6Os?t=4m7s

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Has Ferrari confirmed that their car is not too heavy or do you make this conculsion out of the fact, that they didn't say anything about it (like about everything else with the car)?

http://sf70h.ferrari.com/en/

[santos]

Has Ferrari confirmed that their car is not too heavy or do you make this conculsion out of the fact, that they didn't say anything about it (like about everything else with the car)?

http://sf70h.ferrari.com/en/

https://i.gyazo.com/9dbba9d89c596c49f41 ... 27680e.png

That's what they say in the oficial site... the same as Mercedes.
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... -eq-power/

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Has Ferrari confirmed that their car is not too heavy or do you make this conculsion out of the fact, that they didn't say anything about it (like about everything else with the car)?

http://sf70h.ferrari.com/en/

https://i.gyazo.com/9dbba9d89c596c49f41 ... 27680e.png

That's what they say in the oficial site... the same as Mercedes.
https://www.mercedesamgf1.com/en/merced ... -eq-power/

So far, Mercedes, Force India and Red Bull (because of old MGU which is heavier) have officially spoken about their overweight issues and hence that information is used for all official discussions/arguments. It only requires a bit of common sense to understand that, if other teams haven't made statements regarding the weight, that means they are within the weight limits as mandated by the regulations.