Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

All that has to do with the power train, gearbox, clutch, fuels and lubricants, etc. Generally the mechanical side of Formula One.
User avatar
HPD
198
Joined: 30 Jun 2016, 16:06

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

@Albert Fabrega continues insisting that for Spain must arrive a part of the update, to increase "benefits/performance" (español: prestaciones/rendimiento).

Any ideas?

User avatar
loner
16
Joined: 26 Feb 2016, 18:34

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

HPD wrote:
01 May 2017, 15:39
@Albert Fabrega continues insisting that for Spain must arrive a part of the update, to increase "benefits/performance" (español: prestaciones/rendimiento).

Any ideas?
i was very surprised by the awful pace in Sochi after gaining some tenths in Bahrain post test maybe they didn't use this changes in Russia and will use it in Spain ?!!
anyway its the revised head and pistons is what we should looking for so until the new ICE introduced
same rinse and repeat with ALO DNS.DNF :mrgreen: i assume ...
para bellum.

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

HPD wrote:
01 May 2017, 15:39
@Albert Fabrega continues insisting that for Spain must arrive a part of the update, to increase "benefits/performance" (español: prestaciones/rendimiento).

Any ideas?
Fabrega is usually right, but then it comes down to this, do you take a modest improvement, and use another power unit, and any penalties that come with it? Or do you wait for a bigger update for ~Montreal or Baku?

I think they should just introduce whatever they have the second they get it, penalties be damned. It's better to start at the back with a faster car than start at the back with a slower car.
Saishū kōnā

makecry
makecry
19
Joined: 06 Mar 2016, 22:33

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

godlameroso wrote:
01 May 2017, 18:47
HPD wrote:
01 May 2017, 15:39
@Albert Fabrega continues insisting that for Spain must arrive a part of the update, to increase "benefits/performance" (español: prestaciones/rendimiento).

Any ideas?
Fabrega is usually right, but then it comes down to this, do you take a modest improvement, and use another power unit, and any penalties that come with it? Or do you wait for a bigger update for ~Montreal or Baku?

I think they should just introduce whatever they have the second they get it, penalties be damned. It's better to start at the back with a faster car than start at the back with a slower car.
I agree. Penalties are coming either way. They should just bring the update in and hope for the best results. However at this point of time I doubt Honda knows what it is doing or even has anything substantial in works apart from minor increments that are not going to help at all.

User avatar
etusch
131
Joined: 22 Feb 2009, 23:09
Location: Turkey

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

To hurry is not solve problems so they don't bring big update before Canada may be later but I think they dont take care penaties. They can only start 13-14 th and starting from last not make much diffrence and could be gained at start

User avatar
diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Hasegawa said as soon as the upgrades are ready, they will introduce them.

Sooo. They either will be or they aren't.

Do we know what they tested ar Bahrain?

DarkAlman
DarkAlman
7
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 05:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

JonoNic wrote:
01 May 2017, 11:00
gruntguru wrote:Burning anything in the exhaust is far less effective than burning it in the cylinder.
Didn't anti-lag work like that in WRC? It created that crackling sound on overrun. Used lots of fuel though.
Why would they hot blow or burn gas to turn the turbine when they have the MGU-K?
The harvested electrical power must be far more efficient at turning the turbine.

Assuming that they are able to keep it charged but that's a different problem entirely...

George-Jung
George-Jung
18
Joined: 29 Apr 2014, 15:39

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

How much money is Honda burning on this project? Can't be cheap..with them writing of so many engines?

User avatar
Craigy
84
Joined: 10 Nov 2009, 10:20

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

George-Jung wrote:
01 May 2017, 22:51
How much money is Honda burning on this project? Can't be cheap..with them writing of so many engines?
It has to be in the hundreds of millions of dollars per year, including paying for Alonso and paying McLaren sponsorship.

That's before you get into the cost of the actual engine program itself, or of (potential) contractual penalties payable to McLaren for the lack of results caused by the PU.

User avatar
amho
1
Joined: 30 Apr 2015, 21:15
Location: Iran

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

I don't understand why always Honda changes the whole engine when a failure occures during the season.they say it's time consuming to repair or change the failed part therefore it's better to change whole engine but I think they hide something from mclaren technisians, they might have something revolutionary or a fundamental design error to hide?
There is no Might or Power except with Allah.

User avatar
diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

Looking back over the test news...It doesn't sound like Honda tested heads or anything like that(Hasegawa wasn't there). They tested Drivabilty

User avatar
diffuser
236
Joined: 07 Sep 2012, 13:55
Location: Montreal

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

amho wrote:
01 May 2017, 22:58
I don't understand why always Honda changes the whole engine when a failure occures during the season.they say it's time consuming to repair or change the failed part therefore it's better to change whole engine but I think they hide something from mclaren technisians, they might have something revolutionary or a fundamental design error to hide?
If you beleive Hasegawa (and I do) they have McLaren people helping them back in Japan. So they aren't hiding anything.

DarkAlman
DarkAlman
7
Joined: 08 Dec 2015, 05:25

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

amho wrote:
01 May 2017, 22:58
I don't understand why always Honda changes the whole engine when a failure occures during the season.they say it's time consuming to repair or change the failed part therefore it's better to change whole engine but I think they hide something from mclaren technisians, they might have something revolutionary or a fundamental design error to hide?
We aren't talking about pulling out a simple part like a water pump on your car here. The parts are all so integrated, customized and tightly packaged on these power units that each failure has a knock on effect to other parts. You have to send the unit back to the factory to get dismantled and rebuilt basically. In the field it doesn't make sense to replace one small component it's easier and much faster to just uncrate the spare engine, MGU-K, Battery etc and slap it in the car then figure out why the last engine failed later in the week in Sakura.

The reason it takes them so long to do it is because they have to dismantle the whole car to get at the engine. Being that it's a stressed member it's part of the frame of the car so you have to remove everything to get to it.

Once the engine is on a jack stand then you could start the process of removing the exhaust and figuring out what part that's failed and replace it... or you could just put it aside and put the new engine in and then rebuild the entire car.
Last edited by DarkAlman on 01 May 2017, 23:14, edited 1 time in total.

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

DarkAlman wrote:
01 May 2017, 22:49
JonoNic wrote:
01 May 2017, 11:00
gruntguru wrote:Burning anything in the exhaust is far less effective than burning it in the cylinder.
Didn't anti-lag work like that in WRC? It created that crackling sound on overrun. Used lots of fuel though.
Why would they hot blow or burn gas to turn the turbine when they have the MGU-K?
The harvested electrical power must be far more efficient at turning the turbine.

Assuming that they are able to keep it charged but that's a different problem entirely...
The batteries are charged primarily by the turbine, not the MGU-K, the MGU-K does nothing to the turbine, only the crank. The MGU-H does the bulk of the energy harvesting, so you need a powerful combustion process to not only power then crank and by consequence the MGU-K, but also to create enough exhaust energy to power the MGU-H. The MGU-H <-> MGU-K is unlimited so you can potentially deploy more than the 4MJ allowed from ES -> MGU-K.
Saishū kōnā

User avatar
godlameroso
309
Joined: 16 Jan 2010, 21:27
Location: Miami FL

Re: Honda Power Unit

Post

George-Jung wrote:
01 May 2017, 22:51
How much money is Honda burning on this project? Can't be cheap..with them writing of so many engines?
The blocks themselves are a drop in the bucket in the grand scheme of things.
Saishū kōnā