Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[DarkAlman]

Didn't anti-lag work like that in WRC? It created that crackling sound on overrun. Used lots of fuel though.

Why would they hot blow or burn gas to turn the turbine when they have the MGU-K?
The harvested electrical power must be far more efficient at turning the turbine.

Assuming that they are able to keep it charged but that's a different problem entirely...

The batteries are charged primarily by the turbine, not the MGU-K, the MGU-K does nothing to the turbine, only the crank. The MGU-H does the bulk of the energy harvesting, so you need a powerful combustion process to not only power then crank and by consequence the MGU-K, but also to create enough exhaust energy to power the MGU-H. The MGU-H <-> MGU-K is unlimited so you can potentially deploy more than the 4MJ allowed from ES -> MGU-K.

I meant the MGU-H that was a typo!

[JonoNic]

Didn't anti-lag work like that in WRC? It created that crackling sound on overrun. Used lots of fuel though.

Why would they hot blow or burn gas to turn the turbine when they have the MGU-K?
The harvested electrical power must be far more efficient at turning the turbine.

Assuming that they are able to keep it charged but that's a different problem entirely...

The batteries are charged primarily by the turbine, not the MGU-K, the MGU-K does nothing to the turbine, only the crank. The MGU-H does the bulk of the energy harvesting, so you need a powerful combustion process to not only power then crank and by consequence the MGU-K, but also to create enough exhaust energy to power the MGU-H. The MGU-H <-> MGU-K is unlimited so you can potentially deploy more than the 4MJ allowed from ES -> MGU-K.

I was not suggesting anti-lag. I was just responding on someone's statement.

[GhostF1]

At Sochi, Vandoorne's fastest race lap was 2.8 seconds behind Raikkonen (fastest race lap) at a power focused circuit, arguably the gap would be even less with Alonso driving, along with watching this video, (the engine note is vastly different to the previous 3 GP's) I think it's fair to say good progress was made with the PU in the meantime while waiting for the update down the track.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7PDTxkNCmXE

[GhostF1]

Thoughts?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129258

Sauber has concluded a deal to use McLaren's Formula 1 gearboxes when it switches to Honda engines in 2018, Autosport understands.

I suppose it is common sense to use their gearboxes but they speculate this also.

The deal indicates McLaren is at least already committed to creating a gearbox that mates with Honda's 2018 engine, even though suggestions it will return to using Mercedes engines linger

I realise that may just be common sense to also use the McL gearboxes but the fact Kaltenborn would not comment on the matter is interesting. Sensitive information? Maybe this will assist in bedding rumours of a Merc engine change.

[MrPotatoHead]

Thoughts?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129258

Sauber has concluded a deal to use McLaren's Formula 1 gearboxes when it switches to Honda engines in 2018, Autosport understands.

I suppose it is common sense to use their gearboxes but they speculate this also.

The deal indicates McLaren is at least already committed to creating a gearbox that mates with Honda's 2018 engine, even though suggestions it will return to using Mercedes engines linger

I realise that may just be common sense to also use the McL gearboxes but the fact Kaltenborn would not comment on the matter is interesting. Sensitive information? Maybe this will assist in bedding rumours of a Merc engine change.

McLaren will still use Honda engines next year.

[alexa]

At Sochi, Vandoorne's fastest race lap was 2.8 seconds behind Raikkonen (fastest race lap) at a power focused circuit, arguably the gap would be even less with Alonso driving, along with watching this video, (the engine note is vastly different to the previous 3 GP's) I think it's fair to say good progress was made with the PU in the meantime while waiting for the update down the track.

Nevertheless, they still had to save the fuel in the race, which is horrible for such a low power engine.

[Abarth]

Nevertheless, they still had to save the fuel in the race, which is horrible for such a low power engine.

That is a misconception.
Fuel consumption (flow) is 100kg/h, it's the limit whether the engine produces 100 or 1000 HP. Point of the regulation is to squeeze maximum HP while staying inside of 100 kg/h of fuel flow.

If the engine has less power (and all other drive resistance relevant things are equal, like drag, rolling resistance, ..), the full throttle time per lap (and per time) goes up, car spends more time on the straights than another with more power.
Hence, more consumption.

[alexa]

Could it be that all these problems are because of fuel supplier change?

Honda's unreliability explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcsQMaDmaRM

[nzjrs]

Could it be that all these problems are because of fuel supplier change?

Honda's unreliability explained
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YcsQMaDmaRM

discussed earlier in this thread

[bigblue]

Boullier is being his usual tactful self

An engine that is more powerful is also more efficient, with better consumption and stability. The more powerful engines have all the advantages, and our engine combines all of the disadvantages

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36339.html

Criticism is deserved, but relentless public trashing of your partner goes too far.

[restless]

I think McLaren are trying something like ultimatum
"Deliver before end of 2017 or we go away"

[godlameroso]

Truth, there is more tactful ways to approach this. One should not hide from the truth however. It's plain as day the Honda power unit is deficient in more ways than one. An average deficit of 8kmh over every full throttle section on a lap cannot be compensated for by having a good chassis.

The Renault engine is down 4kmh on every full throttle section and has poor downforce and they also lose over a second per lap. McLaren loses twice that amount with a slightly better chassis.

I hope the rumors are true and they can advance the engine upgrade. 5th race in, and the only thing they've managed, is to get the car to the finish line as a backmarker.

[diffuser]

Boullier is being his usual tactful self

An engine that is more powerful is also more efficient, with better consumption and stability. The more powerful engines have all the advantages, and our engine combines all of the disadvantages

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns36339.html

Criticism is deserved, but relentless public trashing of your partner goes too far.

I don't think he trashing, He's just stating that the technology the way it is, since our PU is less powerful, it follows that it will be less stable and consume more. Triple whammy if you will.

[taperoo2k]

Thoughts?
http://www.autosport.com/news/report.php/id/129258

Sauber has concluded a deal to use McLaren's Formula 1 gearboxes when it switches to Honda engines in 2018, Autosport understands.

I suppose it is common sense to use their gearboxes but they speculate this also.

The deal indicates McLaren is at least already committed to creating a gearbox that mates with Honda's 2018 engine, even though suggestions it will return to using Mercedes engines linger

I realise that may just be common sense to also use the McL gearboxes but the fact Kaltenborn would not comment on the matter is interesting. Sensitive information? Maybe this will assist in bedding rumours of a Merc engine change.

There will likely be NDA's in place between Sauber and McLaren over the gearbox supply and this is the kind of announcement you'd expect to come from McLaren to confirm the deal. I wouldn't read too much into it at this point.

[Chene_Mostert]

Members! This is the Honda PU tread. Please only "technical" content relating to the current Honda PU.
Please, speculation/discussion about component sharing agreements between Sauber & McLaren. should be discussed in the teams tread or 2018 sauber / McLaren car treads.

Please Mods can you sort this out.