Porsche retakes control of Volkswagen

[GTO]

http://www.grandprix.com/ns/ns20060.html

Unlike VW which played it safe by not entering F1, it will be interesting to see if Porsche will be more dramatic and now steer themselves back into F1 to compete head to head with MB, BMW, Ferrari & Toyota.
I truly hope they do. [-o<

[mx_tifoso]

It would definately be nice to see them competing in this series, but I'm afraid they are too busy recovering from the fierce competition the F430 GT's are giving them in the sports car categories.

Although it would be extremely shameful for them to come into F1, spend millions upon millions of dollars/euros in resources only to achieve mediocre results. I've come to accept a "failure" from Toyota in F1, but I simply can't imagine Porsche having the same results and taking to the chest as well as Toyota have. "Failure" nowadays is way too much for such a big manufacturer to take in, and I can't see Porsche taking such a disgrace so well. Imagine Porsche using their F1 team as one of their main marketing tools and then facing the facts of not being able to compete with the top teams, that would create a huge dilemma within themselves and would then lead to an almost immediate extraction from the sport. It basically comes down to marketing, and whether or not competing in F1 will be an asset to the company as a whole.

And as far as I know, Porsche doesn't have their heart and soul in Formula One, so even if they achieved poor results they would most likely not stay for too long after that. I think that what I mentioned in the previous sentences is what seperates them from manufacturers like Ferrari, Mercedes, and Renault.

And it's kind of strange to see Lamborghini being under control of so many German firms. It somewhat takes away from their Italian-ness, since the current Lamborghinis are mostly German inside and out. Audi inspired exteriors, Audi sourced powertrains and drivetrains (Audi-like four wheel drive).
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EDIT: Heres an interview with Ferruccio Lamborghini from nearly two decades ago, Geocities- Interview with Ferruccio Lamborghini. And yes, he does talk about his infamous encounters with Enzo.

[axle]

I personally crave a modern Lambo with all it's Audiness. The LP560-4 that's replacing the Gallardo is just sooo nice and the LP640 well that's just damned gorgeous. What Audi has done though is made the cars work, now they look as good as ever but by god they go now too and round corners!!!

There isn't a lot in the Audi, Porsche, Bugatti potfolio that directly competes with the Lambo's so I expect the status quo to remain and the group make better use of it's resources.

Wouldn't be amazed if Lambo went racing more seriously...as it improves the breed

[manchild]

And as far as I know, Porsche doesn't have their heart and soul in Formula One...

Perhaps this is not enough to qualify as "heart and soul" but I guess it's enough for call it remarkable F1 heritage.

As engine suppliers:

3 times F1 WDC
2 times F1 WCC
26 F1 victories (1 win as constructor in 1962)

Having in mind new regs. they could just buy good chassis and use their own engine.

[modbaraban]

And as far as I know, Porsche doesn't have their heart and soul in Formula One...

Perhaps this is not enough to qualify as "heart and soul" but I guess it's enough for call it remarkable F1 heritage.

As engine suppliers:

3 times F1 WDC
2 times F1 WCC
26 F1 victories (1 win as constructor in 1962)

...and the only engine with air cooling to win in F1.

PS: Are new Skodas to share platform with the 911?

[manchild]

PS: Are new Skodas to share platform with the 911?

It was already done in the past

http://strangevehicles.greyfalcon.us/SK ... ACTORS.htm

[Ted68]

Having in mind new regs. they could just buy good chassis and use their own engine.

Hmmm...Williams-Porsche...just the thought.

[mx_tifoso]

Having in mind new regs. they could just buy good chassis and use their own engine.

Hmmm...Williams-Porsche...just the thought.

Knowing Frank Williams stand on customer cars, I very much doubt the realistic possibilities of that thought, regarless of how marvelous it sounds.

Thats if I understood your post correctly, which is for Williams to supply Porsche with chassis.

[joseff]

Take a car designed for Toyota engines, stick a Porsche motor in it and expect it to beat the original?

If it were that easy, Super Aguri would be beating Honda. Uh, wait...

[Ted68]

No, no. My writing was unclear. What I meant was for Porsche to supply engines to Williams, just as in the old TAG-Porsche/McLaren days. I don't think that Porsche would jump into F1 as more than an engine supplier. The cost is too high and their motorsports philosophy tends to be more as a supplier customer cars than support a factory team these days. It's been 11 years since the 911 GT1 debuted, the last factory race car and Le Mans is much cheaper than F1. Ask Toyota. And when the Spyder debuted it was as a Penske team car, albeit with close factory support, but Roger still had to buy the cars. So that was my point, for Porsche to supply engines to Sir Frank, not for him to sell them a chassis.

Then again, Toyota has a fine technical facility and some excellent people already in place, and I don't see them in F1 in two years, they can't justify their budget with their results. So maybe Porsche could just buy out the Toyota works team thereby making my Manchild-designed avatar come true.

Ah, the fine art of bench racing...

[axle]

IMO Toyota are better at engine building than Porsche. Their Kaizan(sp?) approach of continuous improvement works very well and very reliably.

Toyota IMO should be engine suppliers only and let other teams work out the chassis

[manchild]

Take a car designed for Toyota engines, stick a Porsche motor in it and expect it to beat the original?

Remember new regs, all engines have same angle, cog, configuration. Switching engine supplier has never been less demanding.

IMO Toyota are better at engine building than Porsche.

Based on what? Toyota engines have participated in more races than Porsche engines without a single win while Porsche has won 25 races, 3 WDC and 2 WCC titles as engine supplier.

[Belatti]

Porsche failed dramatically in 1991 with a V12 mounted in a Footwork and after that never came back again. Still I think they are better than Toyota. The only way for Toyota to win something would be to stay in F1 when other manufacturers leave and have 9 or 10 teams with Toyota engines, like Ford was once. So if both Ferraris fails they would take a win.

[axle]

Toyota engines are successfully powering winners in every other catagory they compete in. Just because F1 hasn't seen a Toyota engined winner doesn't mean the engine isn't up-to-scratch. This is my opinion, it's not based on cast iron facts or anything just the information I have read.

[manchild]

Toyota engines are successfully powering winners in every other catagory they compete in.

Porsche

# 14 Makes and Team World Championship (1964, 1969, 1970, 1971, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1994)
# 8 Long Distance World Championship
# 3 IMSA Supercar-Series (1991, 1992, 1993)
# 6 German Racing Championship (1977, 1979, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985)
# 20 European Hill Climbing Championship
# 20 Daytona 24 Hours (1968, 1970, 1971, 1973, 1975, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1989, 1991, 1995, 2003)
# 15 IMSA Supercar-Race (USA)
# 16 24 Hours of Le Mans (1970, 1971, 1976, 1977, 1979, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1994, 1996, 1997, 1998)
# 17 Sebring 12 Hour (1960, 1968, 1971, 1973, 1976, 1977, 1978, 1979, 1980, 1981, 1982, 1983, 1984, 1985, 1986, 1987, 1988)
# 11 Targa Florio (1956, 1959, 1960, 1963, 1964, 1966, 1967, 1968, 1969, 1970, 1973)
# 4 Rallye Monte Carlo (1968, 1969, 1970, 1978)
# 2 Paris-Dakar Rally (1984, 1986)