Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[wuzak]

This shows improvement I think. İf you dont expect big improvement.

Lauda said "we are not going to help Honda, we have to work to beat ferrari"

This is a logical statement. They are not leading wcc and they are not comfortable to help Honda

They are leading the WCC. They aren't leading the WDC.

[j.yank]

And just for comparison,

Vettel
Lap Time Evolution
39 1'25.081 -18.194
40 1'25.702 0.621
41 1'24.746 -0.956
42 1'24.990 0.244
43 1'23.674 -1.316
44 1'25.937 2.263
45 1'24.588 -1.349
46 1'24.640 0.052
47 1'24.741 0.101
48 1'24.630 -0.111
49 1'24.588 -0.042
50 1'24.547 -0.041

Vettel gained 25s in those laps (2.1s/lap) including lap 44, on which he lost 2s being passed by Hamilton.

I used Vettel as he had the same tyre compound on at that time as Alonso did.

Between 39 and 50 th laps (when all of them were on fresh mediums and Alonso was not behind another driver) Alonso trails Vettel on average by 2.08 sec per lap, Perez by 0.28 sec but outperforms Hulkenberg by 0.38, Saintz by 0.7, and Grosjean by 0.95 sec per lap. When you point out another race when Alonso match the pace of these drivers in similar way, I will accept that everything is down only to Alonso skills. At this stage you cannot compare him to Vettel. First they should level the best of the middle pack, and I think that they are very close - in this race only Force India had better pace.

Yet even both STRs and both Saubers were ahead of Alonso.

Only because of the way the race started - we are not talking here about the race results but about what Honda engine can deliver at this stage. The lap times above show that they can run the engine in constant manner and now this is competitive to the customer teams. Still Honda PU lacks outright power and efficiency, but it is capable to deliver their available power for longer time during the lap. If I remember this was the Hasegava comments about Barcelona upgrade.

[f1rules]

To me it seems they where finally able to "unlock som potential " from the pu, maybe due to partly solving the vibration issues, thats what was mentioned from different sources, and also they apparently solved the driveability issues. With thoose two solved though, it seemed, they ran into an old friend of theirs, mr. fuel saving, which i quess fits with them getting the combustion process wrong. I mean, if the qual engine map could have been retained for most of the race, like they where able to last year, then judging by some of his fast laps, alonsos pace would not have been to bad.

But lets hope this is a first step. And the next huge will come after canada, and then maybe after the summer break. I just really really hope avl is helping them together with illmor.

[etusch]

I don't know if there is something called illmor. I knew that merc bought that and renamed.

[Craigy]

I don't know if there is something called illmor. I knew that merc bought that and renamed.

This doesn't belong in the Honda PU thread, but to answer your question, Ilmor Engineering Ltd is Mario Illien's company today, it is built from a projects department at the original Ilmor (1983, the one Mercedes-Benz bought and turned into what is today called MB-AMG HPP).

Confusingly, both companies are based in the same town: Brixworth. They are in different buildings, and are different companies though. The MB building is the original one.

Ilmor Engineering (2006) was spun out into a separate venture.

Ilmor Engineering (2006) is a joint venture between Mario Illien and Roger Penske.
It was originally concerned with Indycar engines, then motogp, then F1 again. It does a lot of other special projects stuff for big companies (eg. Boeing).

[godlameroso]

Hmm interesting you say that because Penske is getting together with Honda in the states through a DPi program, so I wonder if there's some cross over there.

[Craigy]

Hmm interesting you say that because Penske is getting together with Honda in the states through a DPi program, so I wonder if there's some cross over there.

Again, no Honda content, but it might help for context to know that the Chevy Indycar engine is actually an Ilmor product.

[godlameroso]

Hmm interesting you say that because Penske is getting together with Honda in the states through a DPi program, so I wonder if there's some cross over there.

Again, no Honda content, but it might help for context to know that the Chevy Indycar engine is actually an Ilmor product.

That is interesting.

[etusch]

Hmm interesting you say that because Penske is getting together with Honda in the states through a DPi program, so I wonder if there's some cross over there.

Again, no Honda content, but it might help for context to know that the Chevy Indycar engine is actually an Ilmor product.

This is some kind of cheating. From my point of view this very bad for a brand

[Del Boy]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

You are not allowed to pre charge the battery in the pits during qualifying or the race.

Article 1.27 - The amount of stored energy an any ES may not be increased whilst the car is stationary in the pit lane or garage during the qualifying session or during a race pit stop

[Big Mangalhit]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

You are not allowed to pre charge the battery in the pits during qualifying or the race.

Article 1.27 - The amount of stored energy an any ES may not be increased whilst the car is stationary in the pit lane or garage during the qualifying session or during a race pit stop

You can easily pre-charge during the outlap with intense harvesting programs.

[Del Boy]

Their engine issue has always been --- ers. But they still have a 4MJ battery and most teams don't harvest much on their qualifying lap, their most efficient modes are for the race and harvesting as much as possible, for qualifying they push more fuel, use more fuel per lap and run less optimally for harvesting.
So qualifying you can precharge the battery and Mclaren's deficit is much smaller. In the race when everyone is in optimum efficiency mode Mclaren's inability to harvest anywhere near what everyone else does is why they have a range of lap times, one okay lap where it's hard to pass then the next lap someone will breeze past them like they are in a GP2 car.
Qualifying pace has always been comparably much stronger than race pace, even in 2015.

You are not allowed to pre charge the battery in the pits during qualifying or the race.

Article 1.27 - The amount of stored energy an any ES may not be increased whilst the car is stationary in the pit lane or garage during the qualifying session or during a race pit stop

You can easily pre-charge during the outlap with intense harvesting programs.

The technical regulations only allow 2 MJ of energy to be charged per lap into the ES. It doesn't matter if its an out lap. I agree you can pre-charge the ES to 4 MJ pre-qualifying but once you have used that in your first flying lap your back to recharging at 2 MJ. The MGUH is of course allowed to charge the ES to its maximum of 4MJ and I assume that's what you mean, I don't think this is pre-charging its just charging

[Big Mangalhit]

You are not allowed to pre charge the battery in the pits during qualifying or the race.

Article 1.27 - The amount of stored energy an any ES may not be increased whilst the car is stationary in the pit lane or garage during the qualifying session or during a race pit stop

You can easily pre-charge during the outlap with intense harvesting programs.

The technical regulations only allow 2 MJ of energy to be charged per lap into the ES. It doesn't matter if its an out lap. I agree you can pre-charge the ES to 4 MJ pre-qualifying but once you have used that in your first flying lap your back to recharging at 2 MJ. The MGUH is of course allowed to charge the ES to its maximum of 4MJ and I assume that's what you mean, I don't think this is pre-charging its just charging

As you said you can always use the H to charge since you don't care that much about the time of the outlap, also you can do the same in the in lap and even in the pits. You can always burn fuel to charge the b82rez.

I don't think there is any difference of pre-chagrin or charging outside the realm of semantics. I just meant it is irrelevant that you can't charge the ES when the car is stopped cause you can always do it easily anyway

[peterg]

There has been some mention of assistance from Mercedes on the Honda power unit. Although to me it seams far fetched but could be releasing a supplier from a non exclusive arrangement. Can anyone confirm that the original Mercedes Turbo direct injection V6 development engine was designed and built by Advanced Engine Research (AER) Ltd, was AVL originally involved in the combustion design or were they involved later. Does anyone know if Honda are working with AER or AVL on combustion.

[Dimi]

Sorry for the offtopic, but can a team store fuel in a second tank after flow sensor on their out lap so to exceed the fuel flow limit on their timed lap..?