Honda Power Unit Hardware & Software

[makecry]

Honda confirming their MGU-H can only last for two races worth of mileage.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-h ... es-911390/

Not sure what to say honestly. I just feel bad for Alonso, Peter Prod and the engineers and mechanics in the McLaren garage and back in the factory.

Didn't they just make reliability fixes to the MGU-H that would have solved all of the inherent issues?

[SameSame]

Honda confirming their MGU-H can only last for two races worth of mileage.

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-h ... es-911390/

Not sure what to say honestly. I just feel bad for Alonso, Peter Prod and the engineers and mechanics in the McLaren garage and back in the factory.

Didn't they just make reliability fixes to the MGU-H that would have solved all of the inherent issues?

Hasegawa mentions in the article that they though they solved the issue with the update.

I wonder why they don't change the entire PU if they are starting last in anyway?

[PlatinumZealot]

Friction when they turn the shaft when before it was whole sale seizure the entire thing. Could it be lubrucant related, shaft or bearings, housing stifness? Any educated guesses anyone?

[MrPotatoHead]

Friction when they turn the shaft when before it was whole sale seizure the entire thing. Could it be lubrucant related, shaft or bearings, housing stifness? Any educated guesses anyone?

Usually when you feel friction on a turbo shaft it's either the bearings are damaged and you are feeling it or one of the wheels is touching its housing - usually from bearings that are worn.

[Craigy]

Friction when they turn the shaft when before it was whole sale seizure the entire thing. Could it be lubrucant related, shaft or bearings, housing stifness? Any educated guesses anyone?

Usually when you feel friction on a turbo shaft it's either the bearings are damaged and you are feeling it or one of the wheels is touching its housing - usually from bearings that are worn.

I think the translation should have said ”spun bearing" as in, one that's already broken.

[MrPotatoHead]

Friction when they turn the shaft when before it was whole sale seizure the entire thing. Could it be lubrucant related, shaft or bearings, housing stifness? Any educated guesses anyone?

Usually when you feel friction on a turbo shaft it's either the bearings are damaged and you are feeling it or one of the wheels is touching its housing - usually from bearings that are worn.

I think the translation should have said ”spun bearing" as in, one that's already broken.

Is the Japanese version available? I'll ask one of the Japanese guys I work with tomorrow.
But turbo bearings can't "spin" like engine journal bearings can as they are designed to rotate.

[asinghkakar]

Honda is still using MM injectors currently running at 400 bar pressure. They will now be using Bosch injectors either 250 or 500 bar depending on what they choose, injectors from the same family are used by Mercedes with 500 bar pressure

[PlatinumZealot]

Ok. Good info

[gruntguru]

Usually when you feel friction on a turbo shaft it's either the bearings are damaged and you are feeling it or one of the wheels is touching its housing - usually from bearings that are worn.

I think the translation should have said ”spun bearing" as in, one that's already broken.

Is the Japanese version available? I'll ask one of the Japanese guys I work with tomorrow.
But turbo bearings can't "spin" like engine journal bearings can as they are designed to rotate.

The F1 turbos would all be using rolling element bearings surely?

[MrPotatoHead]

I think the translation should have said ”spun bearing" as in, one that's already broken.

Is the Japanese version available? I'll ask one of the Japanese guys I work with tomorrow.
But turbo bearings can't "spin" like engine journal bearings can as they are designed to rotate.

The F1 turbos would all be using rolling element bearings surely?

They are using ball bearing cartridges for sure.

[bigblue]

So why the switch from MM to Bosch injectors ? By the way are injectors so specialised that someone like Honda would not make their own ?

[godlameroso]

OEM injectors for Honda are made by Keihin, which I believe is a Honda subsidiary, in the same manner as Modulo which makes shock absorbers for Honda.

Maybe there's some intellectual property that MM is protecting. The performance of the fuel injectors is critical beyond F1. And as the aluminum soda can paint business has shown, the Japanese have no problems exploiting intellectual property for their own ends. Human nature I suppose.

[PlatinumZealot]

I think that is overcomplicating it. Honda simply has to sign some sort of IP protection agreement and purchase the Injectors from Marrelli and that should cover it. Marelli can even seal their injectors to prevent Honda from opening. I don't think Honda as a global company is desperate to copy anyone's designs. There just isn't much to gain but lawsuits.

[tom101]

I think that is overcomplicating it. Honda simply has to sign some sort of IP protection agreement and purchase the Injectors from Marrelli and that should cover it. Marelli can even seal their injectors to prevent Honda from opening. I don't think Honda as a global company is desperate to copy anyone's designs. There just isn't much to gain but lawsuits.

that would be the faster, and efficient way. But honda may want to rediscover technology already discovered. And that takes time and money

[MrPotatoHead]

I think that is overcomplicating it. Honda simply has to sign some sort of IP protection agreement and purchase the Injectors from Marrelli and that should cover it. Marelli can even seal their injectors to prevent Honda from opening. I don't think Honda as a global company is desperate to copy anyone's designs. There just isn't much to gain but lawsuits.

I very much agree with you here.
Injectors are one of those things that are far more complex than it may seem on the surface.
Getting the balance right of the electronic side vs the mechanical side to get the dynamic behaviour needed throughout their duty cycle and even under differing temperatures is very complex. This is one of those instances where you can't beat someone at their own game.
Although I am surprised they aren't using injectors from "a Japanese manufacturer".

But remember - depending on it's implementation the TJI system could be using standard DI injectors.