wuzak wrote: ↑08 Jun 2017, 08:08
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑08 Jun 2017, 02:05
As an Engineer myself I very much agree with you. If it was me I would probably skip the single cylinder stage all together.
MrPotatoHead wrote: ↑08 Jun 2017, 06:08
Oh I fully understand why they would spend so much time on the single cylinder.
But they spent too much time on it. That is obvious.
You're saying two different things here?
No I was saying the same thing, just from two different sides. (Although I was up far too late and I think being tired made my posts grumpy
)
If it was me - I would have moved onto full engine testing. But I was saying I can understand how you can get stuck in the trap of testing / developing something for too long. Especially if you keep seeing incremental gains.
At the end of the day Honda screwed up. They should have been testing on real engines much sooner.
They have no excuses when they could have slapped new cylinder heads on last years engine to test the combustion process in parallel with the single cylinder testing. And even if the heads would not mount on the new engine they could have learned a lot from that testing.
These engines are so complex that you must test the unit as a whole.
The list of things they cannot test on a single cylinder test stand is huge including but not limited to:
Block strength and integrity
Crankshaft strength
Crankshaft harmonics
Oil system
Cooling system
ERS Systems - Both K and H
Intake manifold and exhaust manifold tuning.
The list goes on.
Notice how most of the things on the list are things they have been struggling with?
I have a lot of involvement with many different engine builders and to test an engine you have to build and test an engine. Sure you can learn things on a single cylinder test stand, I don't dispute that but you can only learn so much that really carries over to the full engine.
I'm at a shop right now that builds some of the most powerful engines on the planet helping them with their head and block programs - and they test full engines. Not single cylinders.
Of all the race engine builders facilities I've personally been to I have never seen single cylinder testing except on a spintron - and that is a full engine with parts removed.
And in the real world you can turn around a new billet cylinder head for new testing in the space of a week including assembly. You don't need to make a new casting when you can develop in billet for faster turnaround.
If anyone disagrees with my thoughts on it that is fine. They can have a different view on it, but I see these things in the real world all the time. I even have parts I was involved with on cars that won 3 of the 6 races so far this season. Hopefully that's 4 after this weekend.
Hopefully Honda can start to make some real progress soon before it is too late.