2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[marmer]

Just to keep expectations down (if anyone should still have some), Honda are still only targeting Merc 2016 level.......

tbf i am not sure Renault have hit that yet so its still a decent target

[Thunder]

It's better than anything they have right now, sure (that is if the Update delivers....). But are we really ok with "decent"? Even if they hit that target the PU would still be "meh". It is just a step in the right direction, not achieving the real Goal.

[j.yank]

It's better than anything they have right now, sure (that is if the Update delivers....). But are we really ok with "decent"? Even if they hit that target the PU would still be "meh". It is just a step in the right direction, not achieving the real Goal.

It seems that in fact McLaren-Honda are 10 kg lighter than Mercedes (Hasegawa words), and if they keep this difference after the engine update, and reach Mercedes 2016 level, they will be in front of everyone.

[George-Jung]

edit.

[Thunder]

It's better than anything they have right now, sure (that is if the Update delivers....). But are we really ok with "decent"? Even if they hit that target the PU would still be "meh". It is just a step in the right direction, not achieving the real Goal.

It seems that in fact McLaren-Honda are 10 kg lighter than Mercedes (Hasegawa words), and if they keep this difference after the engine update, and reach Mercedes 2016 level, they will be in front of everyone.

Do you have a quote for that 10kg difference? Even if, the Cars have a minimum weight. Everything below that can be moved around with Ballast. 10kg Ballast somewhere Merc maybe doesn't have it won't make up for that PU deficit.

[j.yank]

It's better than anything they have right now, sure (that is if the Update delivers....). But are we really ok with "decent"? Even if they hit that target the PU would still be "meh". It is just a step in the right direction, not achieving the real Goal.

It seems that in fact McLaren-Honda are 10 kg lighter than Mercedes (Hasegawa words), and if they keep this difference after the engine update, and reach Mercedes 2016 level, they will be in front of everyone.

Do you have a quote for that 10kg difference? Even if, the Cars have a minimum weight. Everything below that can be moved around with Ballast. 10kg Ballast somewhere Merc maybe doesn't have it won't make up for that PU deficit.

I posted in the engine tread my calculations based on onboard laps and simple 1/4 horse power calculator. You can match the timings and the speeds, only when you have 10 kg lighter car, and it gives exactly about 80-100 hp deficit.

[Thunder]

But they are not 10kg lighter. Both Cars are at the minimum weigth last i heard. From that Point on you can only move around the "free" weight you have, which helps, but it's still weight on the Car.

[RedNEO]

It seems that in fact McLaren-Honda are 10 kg lighter than Mercedes (Hasegawa words), and if they keep this difference after the engine update, and reach Mercedes 2016 level, they will be in front of everyone.

Do you have a quote for that 10kg difference? Even if, the Cars have a minimum weight. Everything below that can be moved around with Ballast. 10kg Ballast somewhere Merc maybe doesn't have it won't make up for that PU deficit.

I posted in the engine tread my calculations based on onboard laps and simple 1/4 horse power calculator. You can match the timings and the speeds, only when you have 10 kg lighter car, and it gives exactly about 80-100 hp deficit.

A light engine is no good to anyone if it just vibrates itself to pieces.

[Vasconia]

Yes, I think that McLaren and Alonso will wait and see how the updated PU work. If they improvement is clear and marks a clear path for further improvemente, Honda will remain there. If not, Mercedes will be back in 2018, no sooner.

A re-branded PU could be an interesting solution.

The whole "they will wait to see what the next Honda upgrade brings" is a smoke screen. Zac has already said they (Honda) are lost and Alonso says they will have to bring a winning engine to convince him. It's obvious they know Honda won't deliver the goods and are just posturing until the split is announced. They have no time to wait for Honda now. It's over, they are thinking about next years car and how they can get the Mercedes intergrated as early as possible.

Perhaps but they have to be cautious and wait if this new update improves the situation. If it doesn´t work, things will happen rapidly.

[Vasconia]

Yes, I think that McLaren and Alonso will wait and see how the updated PU work. If they improvement is clear and marks a clear path for further improvemente, Honda will remain there. If not, Mercedes will be back in 2018, no sooner.

A re-branded PU could be an interesting solution.

Why not keep the Mercedes name on the engine? It's not like they slagged off Mercedes.

Politics perhaps... they left Mercedes and now they will be back tough they didnt want. Perhaps its a way to "save" their pride...

[bauc]

Yes, I think that McLaren and Alonso will wait and see how the updated PU work. If they improvement is clear and marks a clear path for further improvemente, Honda will remain there. If not, Mercedes will be back in 2018, no sooner.

A re-branded PU could be an interesting solution.

Why not keep the Mercedes name on the engine? It's not like they slagged off Mercedes.

Politics perhaps... they left Mercedes and now they will be back tough they didnt want. Perhaps its a way to "save" their pride...

They did not left Mercedes, their contract run out and they decided to go with Honda as direct supplier coz F1 was going into the engine domination era and aero and mechanical grip were pushed back. Mercedes was aware of this, in matter of a fact the reason why Mercedes stayed in F1 is due to the new engine rules for which they pushed Bernie and FIA for 3-4 years. This was a perfect scenario for them, they had the advantage and they knew it. You think HAM just realised that he needed to ''leave home'' and left Mclaren? NO - he was told by Ross what is coming and the rest is history. Also lets not forget that in the last year with Mercedes engine their relationship was far from good. Just as an example, I remember when Mclaren got the updated exhaust system just one week before the season starts and Mclaren engineers commented that now they can put a briefcase between the body of the car and the engine as to illustrate how big a change is, and if they were properly informed of the new spec on time they would have redesigned the back of the car in time.

[Vasconia]

Why not keep the Mercedes name on the engine? It's not like they slagged off Mercedes.

Politics perhaps... they left Mercedes and now they will be back tough they didnt want. Perhaps its a way to "save" their pride...

They did not left Mercedes, their contract run out and they decided to go with Honda as direct supplier coz F1 was going into the engine domination era and aero and mechanical grip were pushed back. Mercedes was aware of this, in matter of a fact the reason why Mercedes stayed in F1 is due to the new engine rules for which they pushed Bernie and FIA for 3-4 years. This was a perfect scenario for them, they had the advantage and they knew it. You think HAM just realised that he needed to ''leave home'' and left Mclaren? NO - he was told by Ross what is coming and the rest is history. Also lets not forget that in the last year with Mercedes engine their relationship was far from good. Just as an example, I remember when Mclaren got the updated exhaust system just one week before the season starts and Mclaren engineers commented that now they can put a briefcase between the body of the car and the engine as to illustrate how big a change is, and if they were properly informed of the new spec on time they would have redesigned the back of the car in time.

But the relation was not that since Mercedes became a team but also based on the fact that McLaren was not going to renew the contract with them. So yes, they "left" Mercedes because they were working with them and they deciced to start working with Honda.

I am not discussing the reasons because everybody know them and you have explained it well. The fact is that this return would be a Little bit humiliating for McLaren and this re-branding could be a marketing operation.

[bauc]

Politics perhaps... they left Mercedes and now they will be back tough they didnt want. Perhaps its a way to "save" their pride...

They did not left Mercedes, their contract run out and they decided to go with Honda as direct supplier coz F1 was going into the engine domination era and aero and mechanical grip were pushed back. Mercedes was aware of this, in matter of a fact the reason why Mercedes stayed in F1 is due to the new engine rules for which they pushed Bernie and FIA for 3-4 years. This was a perfect scenario for them, they had the advantage and they knew it. You think HAM just realised that he needed to ''leave home'' and left Mclaren? NO - he was told by Ross what is coming and the rest is history. Also lets not forget that in the last year with Mercedes engine their relationship was far from good. Just as an example, I remember when Mclaren got the updated exhaust system just one week before the season starts and Mclaren engineers commented that now they can put a briefcase between the body of the car and the engine as to illustrate how big a change is, and if they were properly informed of the new spec on time they would have redesigned the back of the car in time.

But the relation was not that since Mercedes became a team but also based on the fact that McLaren was not going to renew the contract with them. So yes, they "left" Mercedes because they were working with them and they deciced to start working with Honda.

I am not discussing the reasons because everybody know them and you have explained it well. The fact is that this return would be a Little bit humiliating for McLaren and this re-branding could be a marketing operation.

I agree that this re-branding could be a marketing operation, however I'm worried if this will even work. Remember back in 2010 when Daimler was on the verge to buy off Mclaren's majority shares, which than was followed by a double move from Mclaren to buy off the 40% that Daimler had and to put a end of the takeover story.

Who knows how will this pan out, I just want to see Mclaren back on the top, with Honda or Merc

[Andres125sx]

Yes, I think that McLaren and Alonso will wait and see how the updated PU work. If they improvement is clear and marks a clear path for further improvemente, Honda will remain there. If not, Mercedes will be back in 2018, no sooner.

A re-branded PU could be an interesting solution.

The whole "they will wait to see what the next Honda upgrade brings" is a smoke screen. Zac has already said they (Honda) are lost and Alonso says they will have to bring a winning engine to convince him. It's obvious they know Honda won't deliver the goods and are just posturing until the split is announced.

Sorry but what a load of BS. They don´t need to posture before firing Honda, anyone with a brain will understand it if they split, some will even applaud.

But in 2017 there are no tokens, only allocations, so they can mod anything they want from the PU to solve all the problems they got. Current PU was first they could do this, but they said from the very beginning it was a risky design. That bet went wrong and now they´re solving those problems. It would be stupid to make the decision of firing Honda just before they show the revised 2017 PU

[j.yank]

But they are not 10kg lighter. Both Cars are at the minimum weigth last i heard. From that Point on you can only move around the "free" weight you have, which helps, but it's still weight on the Car.

At the beginning of the season it was believed that Mercedes were 5 kg above the minimum weight. I don't know how much it is now, but if we accept that all cars are at the minimum, it means that the power deficit of Honda is no more than 70 hp.