Briatore slamming Hamilton again...yawn

[P_O_L]

"we werent racing kimi, we were racing fernando"" were ron dennis words 2 races before the end of the championship. Combine that with jerez 97 and melbourne 98, wich was a blatanta team order as the world has ever seen, and you can draw your own conclusions.

Team order's have been around since the start of F1 and even though banned are impossible to police. All teams do it and some more than others especially the one you seem never to mention in you rants against only one team. I would bring your attention to comment from Niki Lauda in 2002, certainly someone whom is not Ron Dennis best friend:-

"If team orders are going to be imposed in such a stupid way as Ferrari did then yes, I think it has damaged F1... the performance of the Ferrari drivers as Indy was particular silly and that was one of the low points of the year....when you look as the period when Williams and McLaren were dominating F1, the teams used to let their drivers race their asses off against one another...at least we still had fun racing even though it was with the domination of one team"

And last year this is exactly what McLaren did again with Alonso and Hamilton and yes if that had played the Ferrari way then Alonso would have been world champion, there would have been no spy-gate and maybe you would have been happy.

That the same Lauda who stated in the same year:"equal treatment is bollocks. IN my time I used up all the qualifying tyres of my teammate, made sure i had the best parts on my car"" and in 98 on shumi banging with jacq:""back in my time there where only tv cameras on the straight, so wed behave there and at the back of the track banged wheels as well""".

Aside from that Lauda implemented teamorders at jaguar, making irvine number one, and in your quote also says ferrari behaved silly but he didnt condemn having team orders.

As for melbourne 98, well last year when dnenis was accused of giving team orders, after lewis cried pubicly hed sign up to be number 2 at monaco, dennis replied:""the only time i GAVE a team order, was in melbourne 98 because of a team mistake" therefore admitting all the wooha around a drivers deal, was simply lied. A twisted reality to delude the fans. DC himself admitted as such at the end of teh year revieuw saying he had only moved over because he wanted to safeguard his contract and not because he had a deal with mika. Anyone who still thinks with rose tinted specs it was between drivers, is misleading himself.

[Gecko]

I have one very simple question which remains a mystery. When Lewis admitted the fact that it was his fault at Hungary as he didn't obey the team orders, why didn't Ron appeal to get back Fernando his pole position? Whereas he had appealed to FIA to reconsider their decision for penalizing Mclaren.

For an F1 technical forum your question sounds very naive, hopefully that is on purpose.

Lewis disobeyed an internal team arrangement, but Fernando went directly against a regulation written down in the FIA rule book. Whether Lewis admits to wrongdoing on his part or not, this has absolutely no implications on the stewards' decision.

And all of this is even without mentioning the very simple fact that one can not appeal the sporting decisions that are to do with qualifying times. It's all in the FIA sporting regulations, look it up.

[Gecko]

McLaren, but for a couple of simple, tiny efforts here and there could have had the glory of a driver's champion (in either driver). They buggered it up completely themselves by not managing the situation better. And, from logic point of view, it would have been better to swing things Alonso's way and give Hamilton a less stressful intro to F1 with the aim of a long career.

Hammer, nail, head.

McLaren really messed up the situation as far as people management goes. They should have realized that both Alonso and Hamilton are simply not as mature individuals as they expected them to be and should have steered the relationship more. Instead they let Alonso as a supposedly mature double WDC to his own devices while giving Hamilton a lot of emotional support. With better management they would have won the drivers' championship and kept what was surely the most impressive driver pairing in recent history for 2008.

What Flavio is doing with his recent comments is not really aimed at Lewis but is done in order to stroke Fernando's ego. It is also giving a strong hint to Piquet Jr. about just what is expected of him. Flavio is a canny operator who knows what his people need to operate at their best and for the benefit of the team.

[Steven]

flav is the best team boss in F1 and at least an honest one.

""we werent racing kimi, we were racing fernando"" were ron dennis words 2 races before the end of the championship. Combine that with jerez 97 and melbourne 98, wich was a blatanta team order as the world has ever seen, and you can draw your own conclusions.

Flav is with us, the fans. dennis is with nobody.

Well, it's a bit to the extreme, but I would agree that Flavio is one of the best team bosses in F1 and has been for many years. While he is known to have his favourite drivers, he supports all of them for one 100% and gives his opinion publicly (a personality which I regard highly in a word as political as F1).

@Row W, Gecko: I couldn't agree more.

Also, may I ask not to start a flamewar against an outspoken opinion?

[mcdenife]

I have one very simple question which remains a mystery. When Lewis admitted the fact that it was his fault at Hungary as he didn't obey the team orders, why didn't Ron appeal to get back Fernando his pole position? Whereas he had appealed to FIA to reconsider their decision for penalizing Mclaren.

Where's the mystery? While everyone was pointing the finger at Nando in the immediate aftermath of the incident, was it not RD himself who clarified things that it was infact Lewis who started it all? Blame the FIA for not reconsidering in light of RD's clarification, not the team. The FIA cant punish Lewis for disobeying team orders but they can for impeding another driver regardless of who or what went on before. Regardless, I dont think the FIA should have got involved unless there was a protest from Hamilton that he was impeded, which he did not.
Nearly everyone who knows anything about F1 (the exception being the FIA) thought the FIA punishing the team was ridiculous. Why then should the team not appeal?

And last but not the least what does this quote prove "We weren't racing Kimi, we were racing Fernando".

...er that lewis was racing Nando and not Kimi? but more importantly that they were allowed to race each other.
One thought. Mclaren really did shoot themselves in the foot in pursuit of fairness. That late in the championship, you would get behind whoever had the best chance, points wise, for the championship. So 2 questions; of their 2 drivers, who was best placed, and why didnt they throw weight behind him.
Not favouring either driver has now become proof to fans of one of their drivers as favouring the other one......go figure.

What Flavio is doing with his recent comments is not really aimed at Lewis but is done in order to stroke Fernando's ego. It is also giving a strong hint to Piquet Jr. about just what is expected of him. Flavio is a canny operator who knows what his people need to operate at their best and for the benefit of the team.

I couldnt agree more, particularly re Piquet Jr (but also and especially Piquet Snr, I thnk)

[RH1300S]

What Flavio is doing with his recent comments is not really aimed at Lewis but is done in order to stroke Fernando's ego. It is also giving a strong hint to Piquet Jr. about just what is expected of him. Flavio is a canny operator who knows what his people need to operate at their best and for the benefit of the team.

Ooohh - I was going to say that. It's pretty clear Briatore wants Piquet to listen and FA to hear. And is there a better way to do that than poke some pressure at your rival while you're at it

There have been a couple of other comments from Flav clearly aimed at telling Piquet exactly where he is expected to stand.

[P_O_L]

Ier that lewis was racing Nando and not Kimi? but more importantly that they were allowed to race each other.
One thought. Mclaren really did shoot themselves in the foot in pursuit of fairness. That late in the championship, you would get behind whoever had the best chance, points wise, for the championship. So 2 questions; of their 2 drivers, who was best placed, and why didnt they throw weight behind him.
Not favouring either driver has now become proof to fans of one of their drivers as favouring the other one......go figure.

[I couldnt agree more, particularly re Piquet Jr (but also and especially Piquet Snr, I thnk)

Eerr, especialy with mclaren 2007 management in mind, ud expect Flavio doesnt need or want to communicate this via the press but tells piquet plainly straight in his face where he stands.

And i dont regard dennis explanation as proof that nando and lewis where dicing it out with equal opportunities. As u say yrself they back the driver with the most chance of winning the wdc. But since that can be race 3 or race 13 at mclaren, and their vigorous public stance their drivers receive ''equal'' treatment, youd have to wonder when exctay is that turning point? And why doesnt dennis simply speak it out like a man? At ferrari they made, again, no bones who got preferntial treatment once massa was out of the matehmatical picture. Fernando at least, couldv still won the championship. No, alonso was held back. Even the brit press where big enough to admit ""..it seems strange alonso''s laptimes where on par or better than lewis most of the season, and suddenly half a second slower..""

[DaveKillens]

Obviously, when Briatore slams Mclaren, Lewis, and Dennis, it strokes Alonso's ego and gives external confirmation that Fernando was absolutely proper in what he did, and was the victim of a McLaren conspiracy/sloppiness.
Truth is, all this blather by Briatore is shallow and quite childish.

And yes, when Briatore refers to how a rookie should conduct himself, it's a message meant for Piquet.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Nothing more could come from a Hamilton Fan

You forget that I'm also an Alonso fan. I have no bias either way, its just that IMO I've always seen Fernando as - in one way - like Giancarlo Fisichella or Jarno Trulli, in that he needs bucket loads of support, he needs to feel like the centre of the team. The difference is that when Jarno or Fisi don't get it, they just drive slowly - FA is far more competitive (a good thing - its why he's a double world champ) and as such when he doesn't get the treatment he thinks he deserves he throws a tantrum.

People who are skeptical wont believe me, but Yes I am a Hamilton Fan - but no I do not think that colours my judgement over the issues of 2007. Yes I agree that Mclaren as a team DID NOT deal with the issues properly, and I also agree Fernando should have been looked after better. HOWEVER I do not think LH got preferable treatment over FA for no reason. They were equal number one, and FA's performances did not warrent number one status, his performances only warrented equal treatment to Hamilton. He lost that privalege by throwing a tantrum and crying to the press, if you have a problem with your boss, you grow a backbone and tell him like a man. You don't try to rub his face in it - what do you expect in return?!

(not exact quote) Why didn't Dennis appeal for Fernando's Pole

Because regardless of whether Lewis's actions provoked him, FA still held him up in the pitlane. Two wrong don't make a right. Both of them, FA & LH behaved badly, FA on the otherhand (officially anyway) broke FIA rules (impeading another driver dueing quali) and got punished for it, Lewis didn't, thus any punishment he got for disobeying team orders is purely an internal matter. My personal opinion is that he penalised lewis, in the pitlane, not during a lap, so its purely an internal matter and FA should not have been punished by the FIA for his actions.

But Ron Dennis won't see it my way, as far as he's concerned FA went above his head, and took matters into his own hands to punish Lewis for what he did - which is RD's job. As such RD won't appeal for FA. And THERE is what I mean about FA being treated badly, I agree FA was treated badly on a personal level, but on an opperational level I think LH & FA were on equal terms.

Back on topic:

I agree that Flav is one of the best team bosses. Hence why he's talking all this rubbish. Like I said in my first post, he's trying to make FA feel "at home" again - he doesn't want an unhappy Fernando (after 2007 who would?!) and FA could very easily develop that car into a title challenger next year - Flav needs Fernando, so obviously he's going to butter him up by slating LH. It makes sence - its just one of the many reason's that Flav is a great team boss. He's a shrud businessman, a tactile politician and great at keeping everyone in his team happy and motivated.

If I had a team Flav would be top of my list to run it (maybe Ross Brawn - but lets wait and see until I admit that )

[Rob W]

(not exact quote) Why didn't Dennis appeal for Fernando's Pole

Because regardless of whether Lewis's actions provoked him, FA still held him up in the pitlane....

I didn't say the thing you've quoted me on Spencer.??? I think someone else was on that topic..

R

[Rob W]

(not exact quote) Why didn't Dennis appeal for Fernando's Pole

...FA still held him up in the pitlane. Two wrong don't make a right. ...FA on the otherhand (officially anyway) broke FIA rules (impeading another driver dueing quali)

You know.. since you've mentioned it, I think this ruling was a bit dubious. Did Alonso really impede Hamilton's qualifying? He slowed him from getting into the pitt box - which isn't impeding during qualifying in my books. Qualifying happens on the track, not in the pit lane. Or can we claim team's impeded each other because one drove 0.1 km under the pit-lane speed limit in front of a competitor now? It fits the definition.

Are we going to have people claiming lap times were impeded because a car got a flat tire (on track) and ruined the next guys lap time.. should he be penalised for this? No way.

I actually don't know why Alonso didn't just say "my radio stopped working" and I didn't notice the people on the pit wall giving me signals - how could they ever prove otherwise? You'd have to give him benefit of the doubt judging by the standards the stewards seem to hold some others to.

R

[RH1300S]

Truth is, all this blather by Briatore is shallow and quite childish.

I'd agree with that if it wasn't for the fact that I think Flav is a smart operator and rarely wastes words without purpose. He also enjoys a little mischief.......

Oh.....as for impeding; didn't Alonso impede Massa a Monza a couple of years ago.......by driving 200 metres in front of him [-X

[Spencifer_Murphy]

(not exact quote) Why didn't Dennis appeal for Fernando's Pole

Because regardless of whether Lewis's actions provoked him, FA still held him up in the pitlane....

I didn't say the thing you've quoted me on Spencer.??? I think someone else was on that topic..

R

Whoops!

Sorry, that's my bad - it was a few pages back so I couldn't quote it from the little list at the bottom of the posting page.

Oh.....as for impeding; didn't Alonso impede Massa a Monza a couple of years ago.......by driving 200 metres in front of him

Cannot agree more - but we were talking about Alonso impeeding Hamilton at Hungary in 2007. Not Monza 2006.

Monza 2006 though was a joke, If anything at that distance Massa would have gotten a slipstream up to the parabolica which would have negated any understeer induced in the corner itself. It was all just PR bo**ocks to apease Ferrari at Monza.

But that's for another discussion

[modbaraban]

Truth is, all this blather by Briatore is shallow and quite childish.

No he isnt!

[Giblet]

Like usual, he's digging deep into his resources to pick new winners. And it's snot like Flav isn't known to point out certain things to other drivers via the media.