Should McLaren stay with Honda or switch to Mercedes power units?

[RedNEO]

That's it, I'm out of this. I feel like I'm feeding a troll.

Oh the irony

[torpor]

I would not change to Mercedes-Benz in place of McLaren.
I believe Honda's' philosophy in this era is all or nothing. It is not enough for them to build an engine that is as good as Renault's. They had a working power unit last season but dropped tho whole concept because they achieve a predominant one.
Honda plays on a high risk.
If they get the power unit to work as planned it might be a very good one.

Just imagine McLarens signs a contract in Stuttgart and next year Sauber had a miracle power unit...

[Quantum]

Martin Brundle passed comment on this at Canada. The interesting thing about the situation is that Honda are participating to teach their engineers back home how to innovate with hybrid tech and recuperation technologies.

The outcome is that there will be indifferent results, but during the process Honda will learn more than simply outsourcing to solve problems.

I think there's nobility in what Honda are doing even if it's at the expense of their reputation. Sourcing Sauber makes more sense, for both McLaren and Honda. 2 teams, more mileage, more information.
If McLaren can hold out, they'll be in a good position. If not, getting a Merc lump won't hurt either.

[Big Mangalhit]

Not everybody puts alonso before everything else including the teams and F1 itself. For Alonso fans everything else is secondary. Well tough luck these last years he is irrelevant for the sport, battling just for the odd point here and there but that doesn't mean there is no great competition. We had Ham battling Ros last seasons and now even a two team battle. Things look good. Hopefully Honda solves the issue and we have more different teams/engines battling for the win. On the other hand this whole situation helps showcase how F1 is a tremendous effort and all the teams do a mighty job, even Renault has a beast of a PU just not as refined as Merc.

Lol this has got nothing to with being a fan or not. You don't even have to like him to appreciate he would make the racing at the front more exciting unless yall are anti competition and like dull races

I do appreciate him he is a tremendous driver and now he is making the races more exciting at the back. Every position matter in F1 at least for me, if I only watched the races for the winner I would finish many.

BTW you mention a 3 engine allocation for next year, are you sure about this? I was under the impression it would be as much as 5 if they indeed do the 21 races they are planning. Not sure tho

[TAG]

Every decision McLaren has made since 2012 has backfired spectacularly for them. Dumping Honda now would be like the proverbial swimming half way across the lake.

[TAG]

He's a racer who has won championships and he's can't showcase what he can do because he's being held back my his machinery.

The only thing that holds Alonso back is Alonso. He's made his bed everywhere he's been. No disagreement on what a great talent he is though.

[Andres125sx]

I don't know why everyone feels bad for someone they don't even know and who earns an awful lot of money for his job

The answer is simple, people enjoy watching winners winning (except haters obviously), and even more if they can become a legend. Many of us think Alonso may have won a load more championships if he was not that unlucky with his team movements... or if McLaren would have been fair with him in 2007 instead of favouring the driver whose career was paid by the team principal since he was 12 but that´s a different discussion, the main point here is many people think Alonso deserve more titles than he got, and with some more he would have surely become a legend, so some people don´t like watching someone who has the potential to become a legend fighting for 10th position.

I get your point, watching him fighting in that position is also interesting, but most people would prefer watching him battling with Vettel and Hamilton for the title. That would be an epic season we couldn´t enjoy yet despite all three are in F1 for many years now. Many of us get the feeling that chance is slowly dissapearing while Honda find his way as Alonso have the bad habit to become older season by season

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, and what anyone would expect from the pinnacle is a battle between the best drivers. I´m suffering but not because of him, but because of myself. I can feel his frustration in that position tough. But my main frustration is not because of him, but I want to see a season with all three fighting for the title before Alonso retires! Hamilton/Mercedes vs Vettel/Ferrari vs Alonso/Mclaren would be EPIC and when I think we maybe will never watch that I feel sad, pretty sad

I hope now you understand our point

[alexa]

I would not change to Mercedes-Benz in place of McLaren.
I believe Honda's' philosophy in this era is all or nothing. It is not enough for them to build an engine that is as good as Renault's. They had a working power unit last season but dropped tho whole concept because they achieve a predominant one.
Honda plays on a high risk.
If they get the power unit to work as planned it might be a very good one.

Just imagine McLarens signs a contract in Stuttgart and next year Sauber had a miracle power unit...

Next year will be even harder with only 3 PU per season.Honda is far from it,even if they improve HP.They pace for improving reliability is really slow because they supplying only one team.

[Zynerji]

Why don't they run an engine in an Indy chassis amd road course test? An aero update could get close to DF levels and distribution.

They just need high stress mileage without being under the microscope.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Why don't they run an engine in an Indy chassis amd road course test? An aero update could get close to DF levels and distribution.

They just need high stress mileage without being under the microscope.

Well, they can have a Japanese Super Formula Car available, which is as close to an F1 car as it gets. They can take one and bolt the engine and do the testing. FIA would have no problem as they are not the kind of spec that they mandate not to be used for testing. I was expecting them to do this from 2014 itself when they got their PU ready.

[RedNEO]

I don't know why everyone feels bad for someone they don't even know and who earns an awful lot of money for his job

The answer is simple, people enjoy watching winners winning (except haters obviously), and even more if they can become a legend. Many of us think Alonso may have won a load more championships if he was not that unlucky with his team movements... or if McLaren would have been fair with him in 2007 instead of favouring the driver whose career was paid by the team principal since he was 12 but that´s a different discussion, the main point here is many people think Alonso deserve more titles than he got, and with some more he would have surely become a legend, so some people don´t like watching someone who has the potential to become a legend fighting for 10th position.

I get your point, watching him fighting in that position is also interesting, but most people would prefer watching him battling with Vettel and Hamilton for the title. That would be an epic season we couldn´t enjoy yet despite all three are in F1 for many years now. Many of us get the feeling that chance is slowly dissapearing while Honda find his way as Alonso have the bad habit to become older season by season

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, and what anyone would expect from the pinnacle is a battle between the best drivers. I´m suffering but not because of him, but because of myself. I can feel his frustration in that position tough. But my main frustration is not because of him, but I want to see a season with all three fighting for the title before Alonso retires! Hamilton/Mercedes vs Vettel/Ferrari vs Alonso/Mclaren would be EPIC and when I think we maybe will never watch that I feel sad, pretty sad

I hope now you understand our point

Couldn't have said that better.
=D>

[RedNEO]

Not everybody puts alonso before everything else including the teams and F1 itself. For Alonso fans everything else is secondary. Well tough luck these last years he is irrelevant for the sport, battling just for the odd point here and there but that doesn't mean there is no great competition. We had Ham battling Ros last seasons and now even a two team battle. Things look good. Hopefully Honda solves the issue and we have more different teams/engines battling for the win. On the other hand this whole situation helps showcase how F1 is a tremendous effort and all the teams do a mighty job, even Renault has a beast of a PU just not as refined as Merc.

Lol this has got nothing to with being a fan or not. You don't even have to like him to appreciate he would make the racing at the front more exciting unless yall are anti competition and like dull races

I do appreciate him he is a tremendous driver and now he is making the races more exciting at the back. Every position matter in F1 at least for me, if I only watched the races for the winner I would finish many.

BTW you mention a 3 engine allocation for next year, are you sure about this? I was under the impression it would be as much as 5 if they indeed do the 21 races they are planning. Not sure tho

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/f1-r ... 20429/?s=1

"With fewer engines next year, it's three per driver next season, it makes things even easier to do that. I'm not making a statement that yes, we'd be happy to, but are we capable of supplying four teams? Yes we are."

[Vasconia]

I say switch to mercedes it is painful seeing Alonso like this.

Why? I like it. He is fighting his ass off in a bad car. I like to watch that. It don't know why everyone feels bad for someone they don't even know and who earns an awful lot of money for his job (which he is doing good by the way). Also I like it very much to see, how this relationship develops. If you take a neutral look on this, it is really amusing and enterntainig. I don't care that it is McLaren and Alonso who "suffer" in this situation. I woul be as amused as I am now if it was Ferrari with Vettel or Mercedes with Hamilton.

For some time it can be interesting to watch a great driver struggling with his car, because we can how he adapts. But the current McLaren-Honda situation is pathetic and it is lasting too much. F1 is loosing a even better battle with Alonso in the front.

[RedNEO]

Did Claire Williams accidentally suggest they have already split?

"We are not a cause of the break-up and we are not here ready with a press release saying we are joining forces with them in 2018. We haven't talked to them."
http://www.skysports.com/f1/news/12476/ ... gine-talks

[Phil]

F1 is supposed to be the pinnacle, and what anyone would expect from the pinnacle is a battle between the best drivers.

Hum, no. Just no.

It's a team-sport. People have to accept that F1 isn't a spec series; it's about multiple teams battling each other. Sometimes we end up with what we believe are the best drivers in the best teams fighting each other at the front. Sometimes, we end up with better drivers limited by their teams/cars. This isn't unique to Alonso at all. There are more drivers who are stuck in lesser teams who can't shine. The only really tragic thing here is that Alonso is exactly where he is because of his own decisions.

I really hate the sympathy Alonso (or anyone other) is getting here, as if he was beyond any other driver and more worthy of titles. Sometimes, the most rewarding thing one could achieve in such a sport is to propel a struggling team to becoming a WDC one. Just ask Vettel (or Alonso) what it would mean to win the title with Ferrari/McLaren after so many years of not winning vs. his [Vettels] former titles where he pretty much started out in a team capable of fighting for wins when he won the title. Same applies to Hamilton when he started at McLaren vs his wins later with a team that he joined while they were still 4th best. There is no such thing as "deserving titles".

Alonso is undeniably a great talent, but I am yet to see his talent in motivating his team or being a team player.

Anyway, this isn't the topic: it's not about Alonso or supplying Alonso with whatever, but about if McLaren should stay with Honda or not.

And the question is quite complex: From what I understand; the investment Honda is making into McLaren in form of salary payments and sponsorship money is substantial. The question is: do they sit it out and continue to struggle at the end of the grid or is there a high probability that Honda will at some point gain competitiveness? Or do they end this very complicated agreement, take a hit on sponsorship money and salary payments for a better proven engine (if indeed supplied by Mercedes)? And at what cost will that be? Will they be able to retain their high quality staff in the long run?