2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[j.yank]

I doubt that any of the F1 pundits in the paddock or any media outlet or any fans in the forums like this one, have more information than Honda about the supposed "done deal". If this "done deal" is already reality, I think Honda will stop immediately sharing any confidential info with McLaren. Instead of this, they are heading to Baku with an important update, and they will test this update with ... McLaren. I think that many frustrated McLaren fans bite the media hooks for more clicks/visitors and create imaginary stories in their heads.

Well, Honda doesn't really have a choice. What will they do? Stay in Japan?

Better than giving confidential information to their competitors. I think many people underestimate what company Honda is, and what is the real situation. I would not be surprised if McLaren are the ones that don't have a choice in this situation rather Honda. Monisha Kalterborn has resigned from Sauber? Interlude to Honda works team? Maybe all this drama is knee jerk reaction of McLaren feeling that their engine supplier has other plans? Just speculation, of course ...

[HPD]

I leave this here and I'm leaving slowly..

25% Mansour Ojjeh + zak brown + Alonso = Mclaren Mercedes 2018 (Remember the meetings with mercedes)
25% Ron Dennis + Eric boullier = Mclaren Honda 2018 (Eric has more hope in Honda)

50% Honda is calm to continue in 2018 = Mumtalakat Honda (?) Maybe.

Proff:
McLaren · Honda, the possibility of continuing in 2018 is 99%. The opponents are Mansour Ogier
http://members.f1-life.net/report/54837/

[ZakB]

I leave this here and I'm leaving slowly..

25% Mansour Ojjeh + zak brown + Alonso = Mclaren Mercedes 2018 (Remember the meetings with mercedes)
25% Ron Dennis + Eric boullier = Mclaren Honda 2018 (Eric has more hope in Honda)

50% Honda is calm to continue in 2018 = Mumtalakat Honda (?) Maybe.

Proff:
McLaren · Honda, the possibility of continuing in 2018 is 99%. The opponents are Mansour Ogier
http://members.f1-life.net/report/54837/

Eric has more hope in Honda? Since when? He was the one talking about the lack of F1 culture at Honda.

[ringo]

a merc engine in a mclaren can beat a w0x car on any given weekend. I really dont see the logic of why so many beleive there is some glass ceiling preventing this from happening.
Mercedes engines are the same for all customers. Merc may get the updates earlier, but we aren't talking about 50 horsepower updates here. I dare say a mcalren with a good chassis, that is setup better than a mercedes can whoop it any weekend without an updated engine.
I've seen too many times in the past where williams have threatened mercedes occasionally, even with their vanilla chassis. Now imagine a more aggressive and tractive mcalren chassis?
Come on guys, i expect deeper analysis from you on this works engine thing.
Mclaren should grab the mercedes engine with both hands, and prepare to fight for a championship with it. Redbull can win with a lesser engine than a customer merc, so dont see why mclaren cant with the merc engine.

[Squid]

If Mercedes thinks there's even a remote chance that McLaren might beat them with their own engine, then it won't happen.
If Mercedes does sell engines to McLaren, it's because they firmly believe that McLaren is not a threat.

The thing is, this is a non-zero-sum game. Red Bull are better than the Merc customers in every way except the engine. Of course they're beating them! They have better drivers and they have a better chassis, which makes up for an engine deficit. But Mercedes, Mercedes is on a whole different level. We're not talking about beating the midfield, who run on middling budgets. We're talking about Mercedes, the team that has dominated the sport since 2014 and has the backing of a multi-billion dollar corporation. McLaren would need to beat Mercedes in both the chassis and the driver department to even have a shred of hope of winning with the same engine. And if recent history is any indication, it won't happen.

Mercedes can vastly outspend McLaren, and that's considering that McLaren are getting their engines for free. What would their budget look like if they lose Honda's $100m AND the free engines? Oh yeah, that engine money would now be going to Mercedes, the team they have to beat. Can sponsorships offset that? Perhaps, but then again, McLaren lost many of their biggest sponsors even before Honda came in the picture.

My personal opinion is that there's a better chance of Honda making a competitive engine than McLaren beating Mercedes with their own engine, which is why I support McLaren sticking with Honda.

[FW17]

Mumtalakat Honda (?) Maybe.

New brand of toasters?

[Thunder]

I doubt that any of the F1 pundits in the paddock or any media outlet or any fans in the forums like this one, have more information than Honda about the supposed "done deal". If this "done deal" is already reality, I think Honda will stop immediately sharing any confidential info with McLaren. Instead of this, they are heading to Baku with an important update, and they will test this update with ... McLaren. I think that many frustrated McLaren fans bite the media hooks for more clicks/visitors and create imaginary stories in their heads.

Well Zak already gave a Deadline (around the Monza GP). So until that Date the McLaren Honda Collaboration will go ahead full steam since it is the preferred choice of both McLaren and Honda. There may be agreements about"what happens if...." but i seriously doubt any Contract has been signed.

[etusch]

a merc engine in a mclaren can beat a w0x car on any given weekend. I really dont see the logic of why so many beleive there is some glass ceiling preventing this from happening.
Mercedes engines are the same for all customers. Merc may get the updates earlier, but we aren't talking about 50 horsepower updates here. I dare say a mcalren with a good chassis, that is setup better than a mercedes can whoop it any weekend without an updated engine.
I've seen too many times in the past where williams have threatened mercedes occasionally, even with their vanilla chassis. Now imagine a more aggressive and tractive mcalren chassis?
Come on guys, i expect deeper analysis from you on this works engine thing.
Mclaren should grab the mercedes engine with both hands, and prepare to fight for a championship with it. Redbull can win with a lesser engine than a customer merc, so dont see why mclaren cant with the merc engine.

McLaren couldn't make good chassis for a veeery long time. You are thinking like Williams. How can you compare RBR, one of the two best teams of this aero regulations era, with McLaren which couldn't do good job at same era. RBR was so, so good that beat everyone with slightly less poweron engine side. Do you think McLaren can do that next year or 2019?
A blown PU, 10 Hp less power can change everything.
Think that for WDC or WCC challenge. you are rival with merc. You have same level or a bit better chassis than merc . What can do as a customer with the PU. But every setting card on hand of works team. İf they don't sabotate you, they can use more aggressive settings for winning which is acceptable from every aspect. Look 2005 season. At every race mclaren Mercedes is more powerful but at chine which would determine WCC what Renault did.

[RedNEO]

a merc engine in a mclaren can beat a w0x car on any given weekend. I really dont see the logic of why so many beleive there is some glass ceiling preventing this from happening.
Mercedes engines are the same for all customers. Merc may get the updates earlier, but we aren't talking about 50 horsepower updates here. I dare say a mcalren with a good chassis, that is setup better than a mercedes can whoop it any weekend without an updated engine.
I've seen too many times in the past where williams have threatened mercedes occasionally, even with their vanilla chassis. Now imagine a more aggressive and tractive mcalren chassis?
Come on guys, i expect deeper analysis from you on this works engine thing.
Mclaren should grab the mercedes engine with both hands, and prepare to fight for a championship with it. Redbull can win with a lesser engine than a customer merc, so dont see why mclaren cant with the merc engine.

100 % right. People have forgot or just lie to themselves how good McLaren can be and take any opportunity to undermine them. I'm looking forward to McLaren getting Mercedes engines even more now so those people can be shutdown. Alonso will be on it and the lack of power isn't going to hold back the chassis anymore so prod can work his magic!

[RedNEO]

Mumtalakat Honda (?) Maybe.

New brand of toasters?

[Big Mangalhit]

a merc engine in a mclaren can beat a w0x car on any given weekend. I really dont see the logic of why so many beleive there is some glass ceiling preventing this from happening.
Mercedes engines are the same for all customers. Merc may get the updates earlier, but we aren't talking about 50 horsepower updates here. I dare say a mcalren with a good chassis, that is setup better than a mercedes can whoop it any weekend without an updated engine.
I've seen too many times in the past where williams have threatened mercedes occasionally, even with their vanilla chassis. Now imagine a more aggressive and tractive mcalren chassis?
Come on guys, i expect deeper analysis from you on this works engine thing.
Mclaren should grab the mercedes engine with both hands, and prepare to fight for a championship with it. Redbull can win with a lesser engine than a customer merc, so dont see why mclaren cant with the merc engine.

I actually doubt that would happen.

1) the engine is custom made with maps that deliver the power exactly in the most favourable way in mind for the mercedes chassis, they will always have the advantage of integration and it will not be a drivable in a different chassis. Mclaren as no option to customise the source code of the maps nor even seeing it.

2) Mercedes can always use more aggressive maps and ban them on other teams if they deem them a threat, that is allowed in the rules to have different maps. It is told that other Merc customers can't go in full aggression mode as much cause mercedes doesn't want the PU's to fail giving bad publicity.

3) Mercedes will know since the beginning of chassis design the PU dimensions and weight and can fine tune the chassis around it, Mclaren will always be a step behind designing the chassis with limited information.

4) Mercedes knows the details of their own PU and can run minimum threshold cooling for each race and Mclaren would be limited to the information supplied by Merc

5) probably worst of all if McLaren was really fighting with Merc for WCC they could made them stay behind on updates on purpose or deliver bad code and maps just enough to win without being noticed. Again maps are very protected IP that no one else is allowed to have a look and can be different from mothersteam to customers especially if they are on "different" stages in the PU number.

This without going in to more tin foil theories like merc sabotaging the engines on purpose just enough that they would be slightly slower without being noticeable. Just a small "irregularity" on power delivery out of corners etc etc... should be enough

[RedNEO]

a merc engine in a mclaren can beat a w0x car on any given weekend. I really dont see the logic of why so many beleive there is some glass ceiling preventing this from happening.
Mercedes engines are the same for all customers. Merc may get the updates earlier, but we aren't talking about 50 horsepower updates here. I dare say a mcalren with a good chassis, that is setup better than a mercedes can whoop it any weekend without an updated engine.
I've seen too many times in the past where williams have threatened mercedes occasionally, even with their vanilla chassis. Now imagine a more aggressive and tractive mcalren chassis?
Come on guys, i expect deeper analysis from you on this works engine thing.
Mclaren should grab the mercedes engine with both hands, and prepare to fight for a championship with it. Redbull can win with a lesser engine than a customer merc, so dont see why mclaren cant with the merc engine.

I actually doubt that would happen.

1) the engine is custom made with maps that deliver the power exactly in the most favourable way in mind for the mercedes chassis, they will always have the advantage of integration and it will not be a drivable in a different chassis. Mclaren as no option to customise the source code of the maps nor even seeing it.

2) Mercedes can always use more aggressive maps and ban them on other teams if they deem them a threat, that is allowed in the rules to have different maps. It is told that other Merc customers can't go in full aggression mode as much cause mercedes doesn't want the PU's to fail giving bad publicity.

3) Mercedes will know since the beginning of chassis design the PU dimensions and weight and can fine tune the chassis around it, Mclaren will always be a step behind designing the chassis with limited information.

4) Mercedes knows the details of their own PU and can run minimum threshold cooling for each race and Mclaren would be limited to the information supplied by Merc

5) probably worst of all if McLaren was really fighting with Merc for WCC they could made them stay behind on updates on purpose or deliver bad code and maps just enough to win without being noticed. Again maps are very protected IP that no one else is allowed to have a look and can be different from mothersteam to customers especially if they are on "different" stages in the PU number.

This without going in to more tin foil theories like merc sabotaging the engines on purpose just enough that they would be slightly slower without being noticeable. Just a small "irregularity" on power delivery out of corners etc etc... should be enough

If what you say is correct then they should have had no problem giving Redbull engines if they knew they could control there performance on any given day.

[marvin78]

You don't even know that holding down RB was the reason for not giving them the PU. That's all guessing. As nearly everything is in this thread.

[RedNEO]

Mercedes just simply have a better relationship with McLaren since they have partnered before and I don't think it would be considered awful if McLaren Mercedes was battling them for the championship instead of a Ferrari.

[etusch]

If what you say is correct then they should have had no problem giving Redbull engines if they knew they could control there performance on any given day.

Can't you see what did RBR with that much power deficit. Can't you see what would happen even if RBR have 20 Hp less powered merc PU? Can you see mclaren in that level in near future?