2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[Andres125sx]

I hope that speed difference that is being used to guess a horsepower figure is the difference between honda spec engines and not being compared to other team's cars and engines. You can only compare the difference in speed between the driver using a newer spec to an older spec and it must be on the same track.So i don't know what reference is really being used here to guess how much horsepower honda has gained throughout the year.
I dont think we can know that. We would have to be told explicitly by the team or the drivers.

Anyhow conventional wisdom doesn't make works status honda powered team better than a customer status mercedes team. And if we want to see mclaren win races, it will not be with a Honda engine for the next 2 to 3 years at least. Honda simply have demonstrated that they are way behind the others.
It's almost like a newly developed country trying to equal the united states in military power. They can work hard at it and have the technology; but they simply haven't been in the game long enough to catch up; nor do they have the resources and effort put in over time.
So i think mclaren need to go to mercedes or go knocking on Porsche's or bmw's door for a Hybrid Power Unit.

Sorry Ringo but what you´re saying here is: "it is difficult for a new manufacturer to catch up, so McLaren should switch to a new manufacturer"

[Andres125sx]

What I dislike is distorting the truth.

Where did you get this new PU only improved 10bhp or even less as you´ve stated in this thread?

Sigh I just look forward to not having to look at your posts next year as you support hondas great work in the sauber thread.

Since you ignore the question I´m forced to assume you can´t explain the reason you did said 10bhp, so it was just some BS thrown to bash Honda...

[adrianjordan]

Gaining 0.3 sec in modern F1 actually is a great job. The overall complaining is getting really annoying here.

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

[adrianjordan]

I hope that speed difference that is being used to guess a horsepower figure is the difference between honda spec engines and not being compared to other team's cars and engines. You can only compare the difference in speed between the driver using a newer spec to an older spec and it must be on the same track.So i don't know what reference is really being used here to guess how much horsepower honda has gained throughout the year.
I dont think we can know that. We would have to be told explicitly by the team or the drivers.

Anyhow conventional wisdom doesn't make works status honda powered team better than a customer status mercedes team. And if we want to see mclaren win races, it will not be with a Honda engine for the next 2 to 3 years at least. Honda simply have demonstrated that they are way behind the others.
It's almost like a newly developed country trying to equal the united states in military power. They can work hard at it and have the technology; but they simply haven't been in the game long enough to catch up; nor do they have the resources and effort put in over time.
So i think mclaren need to go to mercedes or go knocking on Porsche's or bmw's door for a Hybrid Power Unit.

Sorry Ringo but what you´re saying here is: "it is difficult for a new manufacturer to catch up, so McLaren should switch to a new manufacturer"

Not to speak for Ringo, but I assumed he meant a new manufacturer when the new rules come in.

Makes sense to find one now, so that once the new rules are fixed in stone, they can start work on it in absolute ernest.

[fellowhoodlums]

Gaining 0.3 sec in modern F1 actually is a great job. The overall complaining is getting really annoying here.

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

Those long long straights in Baku are a killer for lack of power and top speeds. So any deficit is magnified.

But in context it was 0.3 seconds on this circuit and Ferrari qualified a full second off pole. If you look at Canada qualifying, 0.3 puts you in Q3. If the full upgrade gives another 0.3 then 0.6 in Canada is P7. Not saying I'd accept P7 but it's a significant upgrade.

Am I right in saying the second part of the update is after summer break? Remember Merc/Ferrari engines are so developed they can only make marginal gains so Honda can catch up. However, they need another 30hp for Alonso to stay (although he'll stay if he can't get a top drive elsewhere). From comments Hasegawa made just before Baku, I read it's 60hp (Baku and post Summer) and that might be it for 2017.

Redesigning the engine for 2017 has really hurt them. If it was an evolutionary year like 2016 then 2017 would have been different.

[Soichiro]

Gaining 0.3 sec in modern F1 actually is a great job. The overall complaining is getting really annoying here.

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

So McLaren should find their part of the deficit or will you start promoting a 150hp deficit to Mercedes?

[DarkSurferZA]

Gaining 0.3 sec in modern F1 actually is a great job. The overall complaining is getting really annoying here.

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

So McLaren should find their part of the deficit or will you start promoting a 150hp deficit to Mercedes?

Maybe @adrianjordan will promote a 400hp deficit to Merc... The overall qualy time is not a fair benchmark as a lot of that Merc made in the first 2 sectors (7/10 to Ferrari I think). Ferrari engine is not that far off of Merc either so it must be something to do with getting the "diva" turned on <- see what I did there...

So I agree. The complaining is getting annoying

Sent from my SM-T815 using Tapatalk

[Lucky]

forum autosport:
Sky Germany saying that they "heard" that deal with Merc is signed and will be announced in Silverstone

[Macklaren]

forum autosport:
Sky Germany saying that they "heard" that deal with Merc is signed and will be announced in Silverstone

On the grid, Boullier appeared to be surprisingly unprepared for Will Buxton's question about their future with Honda... Surely he knew that's the only question he'd get all weekend?

[adrianjordan]

Gaining 0.3 sec in modern F1 actually is a great job. The overall complaining is getting really annoying here.

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

So McLaren should find their part of the deficit or will you start promoting a 150hp deficit to Mercedes?

I'm not promoting any specific hp deficit, but 10% of the gap to pole on any circuit is not enough of an improvement when McLaren want to be at the sharp end of the grid.

Arguing 0.3s improvement is an achievement is fair enough when you're talking about the laws of diminishing returns, but Honda's PU is so undeveloped (new this year) that those laws shouldn't be applicable yet...

[RedNEO]

Alonso droping down from 4th despite having 3 safety cars and plenty of fuel saving laps behind them and still the Honda engine is seriously thirsty. Honda decided not to run the update. Silly decision. He just reported he has no battery and no power and this was supposed be a new unit. Smh not even lasting one race

[GhostF1]

Honda: 'Spec 3' engine could be worth 0.3s

https://www.motorsport.com/f1/news/hond ... hs-922976/

3 sec gap and the new upgrade COULD be worth 0,3 sec. Fantastic job!

No, this update that was tested in practice is worth 0.3. More updates to come also.
Let's say it how it is shall we?

[GhostF1]

Alonso droping down from 4th despite having 3 safety cars and plenty of fuel saving laps behind them and still the Honda engine is seriously thirsty. Honda decided not to run the update. Silly decision. He just reported he has no battery and no power and this was supposed be a new unit. Smh not even lasting one race

Why are you implying it isn't lasting? It's fine, it's no different from earlier GP's. Stop pedalling rubbish. Just crucifies your own credibility.

[RedNEO]

Not when you're 3 seconds off the pace though.

So McLaren should find their part of the deficit or will you start promoting a 150hp deficit to Mercedes?

I'm not promoting any specific hp deficit, but 10% of the gap to pole on any circuit is not enough of an improvement when McLaren want to be at the sharp end of the grid.

Arguing 0.3s improvement is an achievement is fair enough when you're talking about the laws of diminishing returns, but Honda's PU is so undeveloped (new this year) that those laws shouldn't be applicable yet...

Exactly what I have been saying. It's way too slow and after three years. It doesn't take much to understand they just don't have what it takes to beat the best.

[RedNEO]

Alonso droping down from 4th despite having 3 safety cars and plenty of fuel saving laps behind them and still the Honda engine is seriously thirsty. Honda decided not to run the update. Silly decision. He just reported he has no battery and no power and this was supposed be a new unit. Smh not even lasting one race

Why are you implying it isn't lasting? It's fine, it's no different from earlier GP's. Stop pedalling rubbish. Just crucifies your own credibility.

Alonso said he had no battery power hence why he dropped down the order! Get your facts straight!