End of the safety car

[marmer]

Though i still think the whole idea that there's something wrong with the SC based upon some odd view on the facts makes no sense,
if the discussion alludes to the issue of safety car lines , holding back the field, accelerating etc,
why not ditch that whole concept, and simply have the cars NOT be allowed to top a certain speed until AFTER they crossed the finish line -

essentially thus having a 'rolling restart', the SC will be way out of view, backing up the pack makes no sense or brings no benefit, and you'll have to wait untill crossing the finishline before you can floor it. that means that the back of the field still is in SC speed limit until they crossed the finishline, despite the frontrunners already going about. Give a penalty for drivers that push in the gas pedal or cross a certain speed limit before they cross the finishline (clear to spot on the data).

the only downside to that could be that whilst staying under the maximum speed limit, sneaky drivers MIGHT come and drive alongside the leader/the one in front JUST barely behind them.

at a track like Baku with such a wide start finish straight that would be quite entertaining to watch 20 cars side by side.


perhaps a better minor alteration would be to say that all cars must be more than 1 car lengths away from the car in front by the time the safety car lights go out still close enough for a slip steam. anybody who cheats could get a 5 second time pen.

[Manoah2u]

perhaps a better minor alteration would be to say that all cars must be more than 1 car lengths away from the car in front by the time the safety car lights go out still close enough for a slip steam. anybody who cheats could get a 5 second time pen.

now that is more like it indeed. but it would really not do much for the tires though.

[Edax]

Cars are expected to follow the SC car in a single file for a good reason. Only the SC has a clear view of debris and marshals, and is continuously briefed on the situation on track, the rest have their view blocked by the car in front of them.

Any time you pull out of the file to heat tires you risk hitting debris or worse. That should only be allowed in the last lap under yellow when the track is cleared.

I would guess that in 99% of all cases you only have debris and marshalls on one part of the track. I am trying to remember a SC where we had debris/marshalls everywhere on the track but I cannot (I didnt see the last race though). Drivers will know where there is debris as they always do more than one lap under SC, most times it is probably even more than 5. Furthermore they will be informed by their pitwall as the team has no interest in having their drivers crash into someone or something.

The steward is the only one with access to all trackside cameras and the relays from the marshalls. They pass it on to the sc. the teams will transfer whatever they get from the television feed, but they don't have the overview.

Last race was pretty extreme as the ferraris were shedding parts all over the track. But it is not unusual when a SC is used to adress various problems on different parts of the track. Plus you have recovery vehicles driving around.

I agree that the chance of something happening is not that big. But I think that you will find that all serious accidents in the past 2 decades are low probability events.

[deltaecho5]

Wanted to share a few words on this...

From my experience in FIA Race Control, Marshaling, Timekeeping and racing over the last 35 years, there's are few things being omitted regarding the need or End of the Safety Car...

There is more at play than just the lap as eluded to here:

there is more to the pace car than just driving, so that is never gonna work.
(...space save edit)

if it was up to the drivers, there would be no safety car or they 'd drive so fast the marshalls wouldn't have time to do their work and we get dozens of laps passing for nothing.

The time factor as to race conditions currently dictates VSC deployment vs. SC. In almost all situations, the SC time to deploy, catchup the field and function is determined by how much time the SC period will last.

Marshals, debris removal, cranes and other necessary barrier repairs may take longer, and therefore a SC period is declared. If the time to remove/fix/repair is within the reasonable amount of the time it takes to deploy the SC, a VSC is used.

The steward is the only one with access to all trackside cameras and the relays from the marshalls. They pass it on to the sc. the teams will transfer whatever they get from the television feed, but they don't have the overview.

No offense, but this is not correct...All of Race Control (RC), therefore Stewards, as well as Timekeeping, and the teams have selectable access to all the same camera images in real time. RC has additional controls (Playback on DVR and other tools) over the video. Keep in mind Race Control is comprised of several staff positions, all whom have access to camera feed as well as direct communication to the drivers if necessary.

A good friend of mine who on occasion is a communicator for F1 also utilizes the video feed, and this info is as was mentioned relayed to Bert. In addition to Bert, there is a course safety official as well, whom is also communicating with Race Control about track conditions.

So ultimately, when what is gleaned from the use of a physical SC is no longer of use to Race Control, then that may signal it's demise. In the meantime, buckle up, it's probably here to stay as while longer.

[Edax]

Wanted to share a few words on this...

From my experience in FIA Race Control, Marshaling, Timekeeping and racing over the last 35 years, there's are few things being omitted regarding the need or End of the Safety Car...

There is more at play than just the lap as eluded to here:

there is more to the pace car than just driving, so that is never gonna work.
(...space save edit)

if it was up to the drivers, there would be no safety car or they 'd drive so fast the marshalls wouldn't have time to do their work and we get dozens of laps passing for nothing.

The time factor as to race conditions currently dictates VSC deployment vs. SC. In almost all situations, the SC time to deploy, catchup the field and function is determined by how much time the SC period will last.

Marshals, debris removal, cranes and other necessary barrier repairs may take longer, and therefore a SC period is declared. If the time to remove/fix/repair is within the reasonable amount of the time it takes to deploy the SC, a VSC is used.

The steward is the only one with access to all trackside cameras and the relays from the marshalls. They pass it on to the sc. the teams will transfer whatever they get from the television feed, but they don't have the overview.

No offense, but this is not correct...All of Race Control (RC), therefore Stewards, as well as Timekeeping, and the teams have selectable access to all the same camera images in real time. RC has additional controls (Playback on DVR and other tools) over the video. Keep in mind Race Control is comprised of several staff positions, all whom have access to camera feed as well as direct communication to the drivers if necessary.

A good friend of mine who on occasion is a communicator for F1 also utilizes the video feed, and this info is as was mentioned relayed to Bert. In addition to Bert, there is a course safety official as well, whom is also communicating with Race Control about track conditions.

So ultimately, when what is gleaned from the use of a physical SC is no longer of use to Race Control, then that may signal it's demise. In the meantime, buckle up, it's probably here to stay as while longer.

No offense taken. I Am not sure I am right here, but as I understand the teams only have acces to the televised cameras. The fixed track cameras are part of a closed circuit system which can only be watched from the control room. Are you saying they also feed these to the teams?

[deltaecho5]

Thanks for your reply, very good question about the distinction of what images they see, and glad we can clarify this.

The fixed track cameras are part of a closed circuit system which can only be watched from the control room. Are you saying they also feed these to the teams?

"Fixed" track cameras are typically used for track limits analysis, and yes those would be typically reserved for Timekeeping and Race Control. Additionally S/F High speeds are also typically only in Timekeeping. They are not generally part of the feed, but have been available in the past.

However, the majority of the images Race Control receive are from live shot cameras (remember the TV system is contracted to FOM, as the feed is also directed by FOM). Announce booths (both TV and Radio) also have access via their feeds to images their directors deem worthy to show local audiences.

That said, just because a camera's feed isn't being televised publicly doesn't mean it's not available to the teams. There is a myriad of channels available to the Pitwall, garage and Team Transporters. This "package" of services is distributed by FIA to the teams as part of their entry.

Here's a pic of an FIA Race Control:

(Although they look 'fixed' in this image, the camera positions are not live during setup, so they are literally bootstrapped and tied off to show an image we can test from.

Pit wall may be looking at the live feed most of the time by default but Transporters/Garage offices have full feed.

That said, as an audience, we almost see as much as the teams do because what interests them (location of track debris in this case, or a car off) also interests us.

The safety car still plays an integral role in this, since overall track conditions being physically observed by an official is necessary.

Cheers!

[Jolle]

Wanted to share a few words on this...

From my experience in FIA Race Control, Marshaling, Timekeeping and racing over the last 35 years, there's are few things being omitted regarding the need or End of the Safety Car...

There is more at play than just the lap as eluded to here:

there is more to the pace car than just driving, so that is never gonna work.
(...space save edit)

if it was up to the drivers, there would be no safety car or they 'd drive so fast the marshalls wouldn't have time to do their work and we get dozens of laps passing for nothing.

The time factor as to race conditions currently dictates VSC deployment vs. SC. In almost all situations, the SC time to deploy, catchup the field and function is determined by how much time the SC period will last.

Marshals, debris removal, cranes and other necessary barrier repairs may take longer, and therefore a SC period is declared. If the time to remove/fix/repair is within the reasonable amount of the time it takes to deploy the SC, a VSC is used.

The steward is the only one with access to all trackside cameras and the relays from the marshalls. They pass it on to the sc. the teams will transfer whatever they get from the television feed, but they don't have the overview.

No offense, but this is not correct...All of Race Control (RC), therefore Stewards, as well as Timekeeping, and the teams have selectable access to all the same camera images in real time. RC has additional controls (Playback on DVR and other tools) over the video. Keep in mind Race Control is comprised of several staff positions, all whom have access to camera feed as well as direct communication to the drivers if necessary.

A good friend of mine who on occasion is a communicator for F1 also utilizes the video feed, and this info is as was mentioned relayed to Bert. In addition to Bert, there is a course safety official as well, whom is also communicating with Race Control about track conditions.

So ultimately, when what is gleaned from the use of a physical SC is no longer of use to Race Control, then that may signal it's demise. In the meantime, buckle up, it's probably here to stay as while longer.

No offense taken. I Am not sure I am right here, but as I understand the teams only have acces to the televised cameras. The fixed track cameras are part of a closed circuit system which can only be watched from the control room. Are you saying they also feed these to the teams?

These feeds, together with timing (on club days) are for everyone available on the local tv network of a circuit.
I would imagine on “local FOM TV”, next to all the different timing channels, one of them is an overview of the “security “ cams.