Ecclestone wants Point System Removed

[f1italia]

Bernie wants to remove the points and have the championship decided by the driver that has the most wins at the end of the season.

http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42020

I like it. Teams will push even harder now.

[mx_tifoso]

Did Bernie tell you this himself or did you read it somewhere? I'm guessing it's the second option, so please include a link to the original message. As I'm sure that your (technically) three sentence post did not include the entire content of the original message.

Thank you in advance and I seriously wish that everyone else [who doesn't include links] would get the hang of it by now, which is to include a link(s) to any post if you are discussing any sort of official news. Otherwise we (readers) have to hunt for a related article in order to verify the reported news or totally ignore it.

Regards,
mx_tifosi

PS. Bernie and Max need to retire and allow for better leaders to direct the sport.

[f1italia]

Did Bernie tell you this himself or did you read it somewhere? I'm guessing it's the second option, so please include a link to the original message. As I'm sure that your (technically) three sentence post did not include the entire content of the original message.

Thank you in advance and I seriously wish that everyone else [who doesn't include links] would get the hang of it by now, which is to include a link(s) to any post if you are discussing any sort of official news. Otherwise we (readers) have to hunt for a related article in order to verify the reported news or totally ignore it.

Regards,
mx_tifosi

PS. Bernie and Max need to retire and allow for better leaders to direct the sport.

Here you go.
http://www.itv-f1.com/news_article.aspx?id=42020

Sorry about that.

Bernie and Max what a pair of Characters. I wish they would stop changing the rules every year and it's just not one thing either. The gear box lasting 4 races I think is absurd. If they want to change something end the engine freeze.

[dave kumar]

http://img291.imageshack.us/my.php?imag ... ingdl7.jpg

Uncannily I had just spent some time working out the implications of a 'wins' system and now Bernie has suggested it, (making it instantly unpopular no doubt).
I'll struggle on regardless. The above is a link to a table showing what the Driver's Championship standings would have been if the standings were determined on number of 1st places, number of 2nd places etc as detailed in a previous post....

....The drivers table is ordered by the number of wins. Any drivers with the same number of wins (including no wins) are ordered by the number of second places. If they have the same number of second places they are ordered by the number of third places - and so on down the placings until we have a unique position for each driver....

viewtopic.php?p=70016#p70016

This can then be compared with the current points system for the years 2004 - 2007 inclusive. As you can see such a change wouldn't have altered the outcome of the championship for the last 4 years. In fact there are only a few noticable movers - Wurz up 4 places in 2007, Barrichello down 4 places in 2006, Ralf down 3 places and Heidfeld up 3 place in 2005, Button and Alonso both down 3 places and Raikkonen up 4 places in 2004.

So what would be the point of changing. Well none if you do it retrospectively. But if the drivers know of the new scoring system then there would be more incentive for battling for their best finish of the season to date as this would catapult them in to a new peer group of competitors.

What I wanted to show with this table was that it can't stop someone romping away with the title - Schumacher 2004. His complete domination of the first half of the season would in fact have wrapped up the championship by the 12th round with this proposed system. The effect is remarkable only in the lack of changes to the final standings of drivers. So we can have our cake and eat it. The best driver/car still wins, and second, third and forth place will be earned as usual, but there is now a big incentive to fight for position - that 2nd place could be vital at the end of the season if it is your best chance of a 2nd place this season.

Of course without other changes the majority overtaking would still be acheived through pit stop strategy rather than actual ontrack overtaking. However I think it is necessary to increase the incentive for drivers and teams to take risks to gain track position. This is in light of our earlier discussion on modern F1 driver mentality.

I still think that blaming aero for lack of overtaking is ridiculous. Modern drivers are in F1 for the sake of money. They take risks very rarely and only when such risk guarantees title or win. They are not racers but point pickers, compromisers. Modern drivers don't have balls to overtake as frequently as it was once normal in F1. They are smiling, politically correct, tiny gears in F1 industry and they just do their part of the job. F1 isn't sport for a very long time. If something technical reduces number of overtaking than its the sequential gearboxes, TC, fly by wire, power steering etc. Not the aero.

viewtopic.php?p=69127#p69127

sources for finishes in each race as follows, apologies for any mistakes:
http://www.astro.livjm.ac.uk/~cjs/f1/chart04.gif
http://f1.gpupdate.net/en/seasons/2005/ ... s/drivers/
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/standings/index2006.shtml
http://en.f1-live.com/f1/en/standings/index2007.shtml

[Belatti]

I still think that blaming aero for lack of overtaking is ridiculous. Modern drivers are in F1 for the sake of money. They take risks very rarely and only when such risk guarantees title or win. They are not racers but point pickers, compromisers. Modern drivers don't have balls to overtake as frequently as it was once normal in F1. They are smiling, politically correct, tiny gears in F1 industry and they just do their part of the job. F1 isn't sport for a very long time. If something technical reduces number of overtaking than its the sequential gearboxes, TC, fly by wire, power steering etc. Not the aero.

=D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D> =D>
Elvis has left the building...

Ah!! and Bernie is nuts!

I would return to the old 10,6,4,3,2,1
In these days, a 2nd place its too good, and drivers should remember that the second is the first of the loosers. We need new Sennas, new Villeneuves (in the form of Gilles, please) new James Hunts and probably new Jean Alesis

[Ray]

I would return to the old 10,6,4,3,2,1
In these days, a 2nd place its too good, and drivers should remember that the second is the first of the loosers. We need new Sennas, new Villeneuves (in the form of Gilles, please) new James Hunts and probably new Jean Alesis

What about Montoya though? He even fought for places that he wasn't in contention for.

[donskar]

I agree with belatti:

I would return to the old 10,6,4,3,2,1

With no points at all except for first, we'd rarely see a driver like Kimi last week charging up through the field in order to salvage a point or two. Sure, they's want to pick up a constructor's point or two, but I have to believe they'd try even harder for a driver's championship point or two.

Second try. Let's see if the system will take this post . . .

[HKS]

Montoya surely had that hunger.

Anyways back to the topic. It is definitely a great idea to get back that passion in F1.

[Spencifer_Murphy]

Senna, Hunt, Alesi, Montoya...

You can add Mansell to that list also.

On topic though:

I mentioned this in another thread, and I really doubt that much will change, I think the idea that F1 drivers don't race to win anymore is cobblers. We all talk about how they are "super-competitive" (hence the whole FA vs LH fiasco @ Mclaren last year) and then we say "Oh they just race for the money - not the wins." Well what's it to be? 'Cause it simply can't be both. Furthermore how do you get the big money drives? You have to win races, and thus championships.

And before everyone jumps up and down to point out through rose-tinted sepcs. that "In this modern era of 10,8,6,5,4,3,2,1 points the win doesn't carry as much weight as it used to and drivers are happy to settle for 2nd or 3rd" some food for thought:

Every year since 1989 (when Balestre...oops I mean Prost, beat Senna to the title despite Senna having more wins) the Championship has been won by the driver with the most wins. That's an 18 year run!

In short, wins DO still decide championships. All you'll get by abolishing the points system are kamikaze madmen who'll do anything to win, we'll have loads of retirements, and somebody will have it all wrapped up by the half way point. OR it will come down to the last race, and driver 1 will run driver 2 off the track (Senna v Prost @ Suzuka 1990 anybody?) in order to secure the win.

And then we get yet more politics like 2007. Sounds great!

Go ahead abolish the points system, you'll ruin F1, and nothing will change in terms of who'll win the championship. It won't, and it shouldn't happen.

[Belatti]

Sorry I missed Juan Pablo
Its a pity he is not in F1... I remember that just from the start he wet MS ear in Brazil 2001 GP

BTW, I mentioned Hunt because is "off-track behaviour", rather than his driving. Just the opposite to the "very smiling, politically correct, tiny gears in F1 industry" that MC mentioned.

Point system removed means: 5 teams will leave F1.