2017 Mclaren F1 Team - Honda

[godlameroso]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

[RedNEO]

British Grand Prix: Fernando Alonso receives 30-place grid penalty
http://www.bbc.com/sport/formula1/40613733
...
"The new engine is one of Honda's 'Phase Three' fastest development ICEs, which give a power boost of a reputed 8kw (10bhp) over the Phase Two. That puts them just over 62kw (83bhp) down on a customer Mercedes engine."
...
"Insiders say the team would like to split with the Japanese company and use Mercedes customer engines next year and are taking steps behind the scenes to make that happen but the situation remains in flux."

It feels good to be justified about the 10bhp thing. So many people believed it was 26bhp upgrade to the point that they even downvoted my posts lol

[RedNEO]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

[RedNEO]

Skip to 7:13 for the the funniest answer from Neale, lol that's why I like him because he says it as it is no bs. Top boy!

[mwillems]

Is that mean extra 10 hp from spec 3 PU?

Yes, it means 10 bhp extra over Spec 2.

Well if the numbers at the beginning of the year were right, honda was supposed to be over or around 100hp down on Mercedes so if Spec 3 only gains 10hp how come can Honda be 83hp down on Mercedes with Spec 3? No good Maths from Mr Benson because that means they gained 17hp.

That counting that Mercedes haven't gain during this year because if Mercedes has increase their Hp that means that Honda has increased and gained Hp towards Mercedes. Because if Mercedes gained as an example during spring 20 hp that would mean honda has gained 40 hp or 50 hp if the numbers at the beginning of the year were right.

So his speculation is wrong in many ways and his maths are totally wrong.

I think they gained some power from changes to the fuel system and maybe other ancilliary areas. If I recall, these areas could be changed without penalty as they weren't classed as engine upgrades. So some of the increase came from here. But as for the HP numbers, I personally largely ignore them as they seem to be almost plucked out of the air.
But your right, these small increases may well have been gained by Mercedes also. But on the other hand, Mercedes did say that the last spec didn't improve power, and the Honda is slowly moving up the field. But maybe that is down to the chassis. I wish we had a way of really knowing.

My own point of view is that I want to get really excited about something coming from Honda, but it's just not going to happen until they introduce their fully revised engine, so in the meantime, I'll be happy if we can push for 8th place finishes! Sad, but true.

[mwillems]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

I think they are fully focusing on the new spec engine, but when they discover ideas that will work on the current engine, they transfer it across. Just how different the new engine is, I don't know, but you wouldn't be mad to assume that the current spec won't be able to handle certain upgrades due to fundamental flaws and a difference in architecture.

But if they introduce the new spec and it doesn't show massive improvement, well then you can imagine the s**tstorm that will follow.

What concerns me most is that they can't get a handle on the MGU-H and I don't know if a new engine will alleviate that issue, but maybe it will alleviate things.

[godlameroso]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

That's an ignorant statement, Honda has been working on this spec 3 since March. It's not, work to get 10hp start over, find 7hp start over. More like work on spec 3 and try things to learn what will work best for a revamped combustion concept. When all the changes they're making come together it should be a nice step forward. Ferrari took a winter to make a huge step forward from 2014 to 2015 that's 3 months, so yes I think it's possible if they've found the right direction to go in.

Renault made 2 apparently insignificant changes between the winter, and again in Sochi and a month later Red Bull were beating Ferrari regularly in 2016. So yeah 2.5 months is a stretch but seems about right.

[fellowhoodlums]

Spec 3 was a significant design change. Small initial gain in HP perhaps but it is the platform from where future performance will come.

I reckon Honda wanted to introduce it in Autumn when it had more gains but McLaren forced their hand. To me it shows the difference between McLaren's F1 instincts (bringing constant marginal gains to the track) and Honda's conservative approach (develop in the factory until it's fully ready)

[RedNEO]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

That's an ignorant statement, Honda has been working on this spec 3 since March. It's not, work to get 10hp start over, find 7hp start over. More like work on spec 3 and try things to learn what will work best for a revamped combustion concept. When all the changes they're making come together it should be a nice step forward. Ferrari took a winter to make a huge step forward from 2014 to 2015 that's 3 months, so yes I think it's possible if they've found the right direction to go in.

Renault made 2 apparently insignificant changes between the winter, and again in Sochi and a month later Red Bull were beating Ferrari regularly in 2016. So yeah 2.5 months is a stretch but seems about right.

It's not a ignorant statement trust me. It's reality. 3 years have passed, I was also a believer at the beginning. I wanted to believe Honda could succeed and fight it out with the best but things change and in my opinion anyone with that view now is in denial.

[RedNEO]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

I think they are fully focusing on the new spec engine, but when they discover ideas that will work on the current engine, they transfer it across. Just how different the new engine is, I don't know, but you wouldn't be mad to assume that the current spec won't be able to handle certain upgrades due to fundamental flaws and a difference in architecture.

But if they introduce the new spec and it doesn't show massive improvement, well then you can imagine the s**tstorm that will follow.

What concerns me most is that they can't get a handle on the MGU-H and I don't know if a new engine will alleviate that issue, but maybe it will alleviate things.

Yeah it's always the same thing "wait for the next upgrade" lalala, it gets old after 3 years!

[etusch]

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

Come on man. Do it fair. You are reading Honda PU thread and I am sure you know that Honda have been working on it since early times of this season, wazari san said that this is part of general update and he couldn't understand why this are intruduced. So you can't say that 6 months 10 hp and 3rd of it good step forward. real spec 3, real update is what we still waiting and it won't be just 2 months work. And you already know this. Just making negative comments.

[mwillems]

If it took them about 6 months to find 10bhp and still not very reliable you think they could find way more in a 3rd of the time? Lol

I think they are fully focusing on the new spec engine, but when they discover ideas that will work on the current engine, they transfer it across. Just how different the new engine is, I don't know, but you wouldn't be mad to assume that the current spec won't be able to handle certain upgrades due to fundamental flaws and a difference in architecture.

But if they introduce the new spec and it doesn't show massive improvement, well then you can imagine the s**tstorm that will follow.

What concerns me most is that they can't get a handle on the MGU-H and I don't know if a new engine will alleviate that issue, but maybe it will alleviate things.

Yeah it's always the same thing "wait for the next upgrade" lalala, it gets old after 3 years!

It's not a ignorant statement trust me. It's reality. 3 years have passed, I was also a believer at the beginning. I wanted to believe Honda could succeed and fight it out with the best but things change and in my opinion anyone with that view now is in denial.

Nobody can deny three years has passed with poor progress, and your thoughts are understandable. But you were talking about this years progress and the response was regarding the same, not the past three years. So yes, it's fair to say it is a bit ignorant.

I hope they can do it. And i respect your call to not believe, if that is what you think. But I won't say you shouldn't be disappointing and not believe in them, nor do I understand why you'd do some silly mocking tone if I choose to. It's just a sport, don't take it so personal.

[Redragon]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

Continuing with the speculation and bring some positivism, spanish media reported yesterday that Alo run spec 2 for the free practice and only today for the quali will run the spec 3 or 2.5

[fellowhoodlums]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

Continuing with the speculation and bring some positivism, spanish media reported yesterday that Alo run spec 2 for the free practice and only today for the quali will run the spec 3 or 2.5

This weekend it's all Spec 3. Alonso took a penalty for battery replacement on Fri then decided to put another engine/mgu-h etc in the bank by using it Sat/Sun. So Alonso has two Spec 3's at the moment.

McLaren/Honda looking to next race whereby they have been strong.

[Redragon]

If we're speculating, this is really spec 2.5, and spec 3 isn't due till after the summer break. The ultimatum is have something decent by Malaysia, Suzuka, or COTA, the October races. Will they win races this year? Probably not, will they have something that doesn't get destroyed on the straights by then? I think that Honda will surprise people in a good way, maybe give McLaren something that can cut the deficit to just under a second, will it be enough to keep things as they are? Who knows.

It's also very possible that they stay exactly where they are, and not gain any relative ground to their competition. They have two and a half months to make up half a year's worth of developments. We shall see.

Continuing with the speculation and bring some positivism, spanish media reported yesterday that Alo run spec 2 for the free practice and only today for the quali will run the spec 3 or 2.5

This weekend it's all Spec 3. Alonso took a penalty for battery replacement on Fri then decided to put another engine/mgu-h etc in the bank by using it Sat/Sun. So Alonso has two Spec 3's at the moment.

McLaren/Honda looking to next race whereby they have been strong.

I am refering to this article of Marca where they state that yesterday was spec 2 only batteries were changed and today Alo will take the 25 position penalty changing to spec 3. So if true it means times yesterday were made with a spec 2 with new batteries but today will run an engine with new Ice, Mgu-H and Mgu-K, the mention is at the end of the article http://www.marca.com/motor/formula1/gp- ... b45a0.html