Honda F1 project leader Yusuke Hasegawa has outlined a number of reasons why Honda has been struggling so badly in the beginning of the 2017 Formula One season. He confirmed that lots of problems were not discovered while running on the dynamo meter.
Interesting article posted there. Most of it we had all already pieced together but it's good to get it out there.
Spec 3 not fully exploited yet from what I interperet but the hardware in place and used from Bakku onwards. Full potential still being developed (which is the Sept/Oct timeframe Alonso talks about for his future decision and fits in with the 6 months from March comment).
Keep the faith.
Alo's comment about engine decision tells me he had already decided to stay with McLaren
Interesting article posted there. Most of it we had all already pieced together but it's good to get it out there.
Spec 3 not fully exploited yet from what I interperet but the hardware in place and used from Bakku onwards. Full potential still being developed (which is the Sept/Oct timeframe Alonso talks about for his future decision and fits in with the 6 months from March comment).
Keep the faith.
Alo's comment about engine decision tells me he had already decided to stay with McLaren
But he maybe don't want to be with Honda... But I think being a works team is the best deal.
PU have some reliability problems now. But it seems to be a good base to develop by the end of the season and for 2018. If they can catch up to Renault, it should be okay for 2018. And for what I've read, this engine is lighter and with a low COG than others...
Thank you very much for the article @nzjrs. But you only post negative comments, I will post positive ones.
- “We introduced a new power unit concept this year, so I would almost call this Year One again.” - “But our aim is to develop the 2017 concept into the 2018 season and hopefully 2019 as well. - Then, at the Barcelona test, we found more issues on the car, such as the oil tank issue. It was a car-related issue. This is not a complete engine issue, but of course it is very important.” - “I am definitely confident that we are closing the gap to the leaders so, from that point of view, our speed of development is good. But at the same time it is natural for the follower because you have a target that you know is achievable.” - “It’s good that we can use the same concept because this year’s development and improvement is directly connected to next year. So that means we don’t need to stop the current development, and from that point of view we have already started next year’s design.”
Interesting article posted there. Most of it we had all already pieced together but it's good to get it out there.
Spec 3 not fully exploited yet from what I interperet but the hardware in place and used from Bakku onwards. Full potential still being developed (which is the Sept/Oct timeframe Alonso talks about for his future decision and fits in with the 6 months from March comment).
Keep the faith.
Alo's comment about engine decision tells me he had already decided to stay with McLaren
But he maybe don't want to be with Honda... But I think being a works team is the best deal.
PU have some reliability problems now. But it seems to be a good base to develop by the end of the season and for 2018. If they can catch up to Renault, it should be okay for 2018. And for what I've read, this engine is lighter and with a low COG than others...
No, he says whatever decision they take he will support. Because he want to team to start working for 2018 earlier. This means he will stay.
For reference, assuming an equal chassis, a 80kW difference around Hungary is worth roughly 1.4 to 1.7 seconds per lap. If the gap is lower then we know McLaren has either a good chassis or the gap is less than 80kW or something in between.
Thank you very much for the article @nzjrs. But you only post negative comments, I will post positive ones.
- “We introduced a new power unit concept this year, so I would almost call this Year One again.” - “But our aim is to develop the 2017 concept into the 2018 season and hopefully 2019 as well. - Then, at the Barcelona test, we found more issues on the car, such as the oil tank issue. It was a car-related issue. This is not a complete engine issue, but of course it is very important.” - “I am definitely confident that we are closing the gap to the leaders so, from that point of view, our speed of development is good. But at the same time it is natural for the follower because you have a target that you know is achievable.” - “It’s good that we can use the same concept because this year’s development and improvement is directly connected to next year. So that means we don’t need to stop the current development, and from that point of view we have already started next year’s design.”
Agree.
If we can have 2018 model a 110% reliable by December it would be great - only 3 PU's next year.
From then onward it is performance and efficiency developments right through 2018.
Thank you very much for the article @nzjrs. But you only post negative comments, I will post positive ones.
- “We introduced a new power unit concept this year, so I would almost call this Year One again.” - “But our aim is to develop the 2017 concept into the 2018 season and hopefully 2019 as well. - Then, at the Barcelona test, we found more issues on the car, such as the oil tank issue. It was a car-related issue. This is not a complete engine issue, but of course it is very important.” - “I am definitely confident that we are closing the gap to the leaders so, from that point of view, our speed of development is good. But at the same time it is natural for the follower because you have a target that you know is achievable.” - “It’s good that we can use the same concept because this year’s development and improvement is directly connected to next year. So that means we don’t need to stop the current development, and from that point of view we have already started next year’s design.”
Agree.
If we can have 2018 model a 110% reliable by December it would be great - only 3 PU's next year.
From then onward it is performance and efficiency developments right through 2018.
That 3 PU for whole season is exagerated rule. 5 must be lowest level.
Sasha wrote:Looks like the new (spec 4.0 for auto press....spec 3.0 at HRD)Heads/Pistons(CC) was pushed back to Japan GP the soonest(could be 2018).There will be updates every race if the updates show performance improvements.
They still need to get this upgrade correct(mapping) and still fix the MGU-H.
Little steps now are better than a very big step and then fall on your face even before the first lap like they did in the past.
How could any racing team in any category in the world be happy with such a disaster. A 10 years old kid's kart team will simply change supplier but McLaren can't and it's dragging them down.
The magic "2016 Mercedes level" power figure is constantly getting postponed, it's months behind schedule, and there's no reason to believe it could be ever reached by Honda now or anytime soon.
No way they're ahead of last years Ferrari engine. They're around 80-90 bhp down on Ferrari 2017- don't think Ferrari made that kind of gains over the winter..
Look at Williams/Force India vs Mercedes or Renault/Torro Rosso vs Red Bull- the chassis still plays a mighty important role in the equation. So Sauber just has a really bad chassis.
If you ask me a McLaren with a Ferrari/Merc engine would finish behind the Mercs and Ferraris, a McLaren with a Renault engine would finish behind the Red Bulls.
They're clearly ahead of last year's Ferrari engine, the difference in chassis is not enough to explain the gap to Sauber.
Completely disagree. I think the difference is all in chassis and drivers which mclaren is waaaay better in both. In engine they are still behind (I think). Sauber is a clearly basic and underfunded team yet they outquilified mclaren in baku thanks to superior PU. They are behind the mclaren in quali mode by a small margin (especially if you use stoffel as benchmark as alonso vs werlhein/ericson is a bit unfair) in other races.
I think that margin is more than explained by chassis. That margin is also very small in power tracks like canada (470ms) and way bigger in chassis tracks like monaco (1742ms).
(disclaimer: difference was calculated using average Q time of sauber vs Q time os Stoffel)
In sustained mode (race) I think the honda pu deficit to 2016 ferrari pu is even more exaggerated because of fuel consumption. Plus there is the rumours that sauber can't extract 100% of ferrari pu because of cooling and detuning to make them more reliable to finish the season using only 4 units.
That's fair, and it really seems like the Honda is no longer extremely thirsty, Vandoorne could maintain the same lap times with little drop off all race long. That in itself is a step forward, the power will come as the mapping is developed and the hardware is tweaked to take advantage of it. New injectors, heads, pistons, cams can't be rushed, all of these things have to work in synergy and have to be developed methodically. Truthfully peak power is close between most power units, a lot of it has to do with deployment strategies of ERS, the Honda just can't sustain as much ERS power as the other power units. Striking a balance between peak power and ERS recovery and deployment is difficult, if you increase one you decrease the other. That's why combustion is so important, better, not necessarily more powerful combustion, means less compromises.
They'll get there, it sucks and another season wasted but it is what it is.
Last edited by godlameroso on 17 Jul 2017, 19:14, edited 1 time in total.
That's fair, and it really seems like the Honda is no longer extremely thirsty, Vandoorne could maintain the same lap times with little drop off all race long. That in itself is a step forward, the power will come as the mapping is developed and the hardware is tweaked to take advantage of it. New injectors, heads, pistons, cams can't be rushed, all of these things have to work in synergy and have to be developed methodically.
But they need to be inteoduced very very very soon said Alonso yesterday post race.
"I have no idols. I admire work, dedication & competence."
