2017 British Grand Prix - Silverstone, 14-16 July

[dans79]

I think Vettel is not used to having a direct competitor in equal or faster car fighting for the championship. So it is new territory for him.

I have to disagree with that. In 2012 he and Lewis had very equal cars, Lewis only faded do to reliability issues. If memory served he dnf'd from two races while leading do to transmission issues.

[Spoutnik]

Ferrari have no issue with power, they have an issue with high speed downforce.

It's McLaren you can expect to compete better at Hungary (until they blow up again).

Not at all, they were matching the times of Bottas on S2 at Silverstone for example. I think their issue is more about braking stability and also medium/low speed parts (sector one) and their traction is a problem since their battle with Red Bull. But they have great mechanical grip and a nice aero setup I think.

I'm not sure what race you were watching - but I was watching the Mercedes pull out 0.3 seconds through Maggots and Beckets, reliably, but actually slightly losing time on the straights.

When did you see see this ? Maybe when Vettel was on his destroyed Soft tires and Bottas on fresh SS ?

If you take a closer look to the sector time Raikkonen did a better S2 than Bottas, and IIRC a better S2 than Hamilton on his first attempt.

Furthermore if you watch the lap of Kimi and the lap of Hamilton it's about 290kph on Copse for both of them.
The Merc look clearly more balanced, smooth etc... on this part because of his long wheel-base and good aero but don't underestimate Ferrari. Their lack of pace is not here, that was clearly on the S1 and the S3, both of them with hard breaking point, slow zone where you need a great traction. That's also why Ferrari was nowhere near Hamilton and Bottas in the S2 in Baku.

[Vasconia]

Perhaps Baku had more effect on Vettel than 'we' thought. Vettel needs to refocus- we also do not know what is happening inside his head regarding contracts and switching sides??

@Mertol, although I like the way you're thinking- I do think Kimi upped his game due to the fact that he was running closer to the race winner than in previous events.

I dont think so, he did a good race in Austria. Yes, Silverstone was weak but his race was compromised and he has never been so great there(Webber used to beat him there).

[Vasconia]

That was the best GP of the season so far for me. I wish every fortnight was like that.

I might be biased but Silverstone is a fantastic track and it would be a shame to lose it to a processional street circuit.

I like Silverstone as a track but the race was not very excting apart from the final drama.

The problem, as ever, was the TV director. DR was coming up through the field and we saw hardly any of it. The dicing between SV and MV was good to watch but didn't last long enough because Ferrari played the undercut (quite rightly). Bottas drove well but again we didn't see enough.

At least it wasn't like the old days where we just saw the leader lapping for 50laps!

I agree with at a 100%. the facts show that there was action on the track but the TV coverage was lame, which explains why I found the race underwhelming. Other reason was that is was hot and my brain can pay so much attention when the temperatue is above 25 degrees.

[Vasconia]

But it's been a pretty good race to watch. Fantastic race by Ricciardo with so many laps on these SS. The question is Red Bull are closer to Ferrari than the Ferrari to the Merc or it is the opposite ?

On race pace we have seen RB closer to Ferrari, it seems that RB´s updates are working specially well during the race. The gap is still important on qualy, though. But its clearly one of the team which improves more from qualy to race.

Yes, that's what I thought, nevertheless it's like Red Bull need a little bit more. More what ? In term of high speed sector since the last Renault upgrade they're not so far (sector 1 in Austria, sector 3 in Baku and average VMax). In term of slow speed corner they're not really good (sector 1 in Silverstone. Monaco) and furthermore they're not at their best in medium/high speed corner with their short wheel-base. So I think this Red Bull doesn't have a clear orientation unlike Ferrari or Merc, maybe it's linked with the Renault engine because I hear on Canal + that they will released more power, if there is more reliability.

If this true RB should be quite weak in Hungary(lots of slow speed corners) but they have been traditionally strong here. Perhaps the main difference on qualy is because Renault has not an agressive PU map which works.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Not at all, they were matching the times of Bottas on S2 at Silverstone for example. I think their issue is more about braking stability and also medium/low speed parts (sector one) and their traction is a problem since their battle with Red Bull. But they have great mechanical grip and a nice aero setup I think.

I'm not sure what race you were watching - but I was watching the Mercedes pull out 0.3 seconds through Maggots and Beckets, reliably, but actually slightly losing time on the straights.

When did you see see this ? Maybe when Vettel was on his destroyed Soft tires and Bottas on fresh SS ?

If you take a closer look to the sector time Raikkonen did a better S2 than Bottas, and IIRC a better S2 than Hamilton on his first attempt.

Furthermore if you watch the lap of Kimi and the lap of Hamilton it's about 290kph on Copse for both of them.
The Merc look clearly more balanced, smooth etc... on this part because of his long wheel-base and good aero but don't underestimate Ferrari. Their lack of pace is not here, that was clearly on the S1 and the S3, both of them with hard breaking point, slow zone where you need a great traction. That's also why Ferrari was nowhere near Hamilton and Bottas in the S2 in Baku.

If anyone tries to compare car performances in race, where there were so many variables, it would be futile exercise. Plus, each of the drivers from both teams had different situations and running the car differently.

[Juzh]

Well...well... well... The grand plan of Ferrari to swap the drivers came to a naught once Bottas was at Vettel's tail. Kimi was maintaining a 4.5 second gap for a long time thinking it would be an easy swap. But as soon as Ferrari realized that, both position would be compromised as Bottas came in, Bingo... Kimi opened a big gap and by the time Bottas cleared Vettel, the gap was 8 seconds!!!

Bottas saved face for Ferrari.

This one's bold, even for you.

[Spoutnik]

On race pace we have seen RB closer to Ferrari, it seems that RB´s updates are working specially well during the race. The gap is still important on qualy, though. But its clearly one of the team which improves more from qualy to race.

Yes, that's what I thought, nevertheless it's like Red Bull need a little bit more. More what ? In term of high speed sector since the last Renault upgrade they're not so far (sector 1 in Austria, sector 3 in Baku and average VMax). In term of slow speed corner they're not really good (sector 1 in Silverstone. Monaco) and furthermore they're not at their best in medium/high speed corner with their short wheel-base. So I think this Red Bull doesn't have a clear orientation unlike Ferrari or Merc, maybe it's linked with the Renault engine because I hear on Canal + that they will released more power, if there is more reliability.

If this true RB should be quite weak in Hungary(lots of slow speed corners) but they have been traditionally strong here. Perhaps the main difference on qualy is because Renault has not an agressive PU map which works.

I don't think they will be weak, they will be closer to Ferrari than usually even. In Hungary most of the lap is about medium speed corner (S2, and the end of the S1 and S3). The strenght of the Red Bull is his traction and braking stability which will help a lot.

[Spoutnik]

I'm not sure what race you were watching - but I was watching the Mercedes pull out 0.3 seconds through Maggots and Beckets, reliably, but actually slightly losing time on the straights.

When did you see see this ? Maybe when Vettel was on his destroyed Soft tires and Bottas on fresh SS ?

If you take a closer look to the sector time Raikkonen did a better S2 than Bottas, and IIRC a better S2 than Hamilton on his first attempt.

Furthermore if you watch the lap of Kimi and the lap of Hamilton it's about 290kph on Copse for both of them.
The Merc look clearly more balanced, smooth etc... on this part because of his long wheel-base and good aero but don't underestimate Ferrari. Their lack of pace is not here, that was clearly on the S1 and the S3, both of them with hard breaking point, slow zone where you need a great traction. That's also why Ferrari was nowhere near Hamilton and Bottas in the S2 in Baku.

If anyone tries to compare car performances in race, where there were so many variables, it would be futile exercise. Plus, each of the drivers from both teams had different situations and running the car differently.

I compare performance in qualy, with times and speed and not visual analysis. Nevertheless of course each driver setup his car differently but we very often this season we've seen the same strenght and weakness from both cars of the 3 top teams.

[GPR-A duplicate2]

Well...well... well... The grand plan of Ferrari to swap the drivers came to a naught once Bottas was at Vettel's tail. Kimi was maintaining a 4.5 second gap for a long time thinking it would be an easy swap. But as soon as Ferrari realized that, both position would be compromised as Bottas came in, Bingo... Kimi opened a big gap and by the time Bottas cleared Vettel, the gap was 8 seconds!!!

Bottas saved face for Ferrari.

This one's bold, even for you.

Guess what, I don't think I was alone in thinking that way. On both Sky and Channel 4, the commentators were of the same opinion that the swap would happen!

[marvin78]

It would have happenend if Vettel was faster, like all the swaps happened this year. But Vettel has not been not faster than Räikkönen or sometimes marginally faster. We did not have that yet this year so there is no base for this assumtion, I think. That does of course not mean, that the swap would have happened if Bottas did'nt pass Vettel.

[Treble]

Well...well... well... The grand plan of Ferrari to swap the drivers came to a naught once Bottas was at Vettel's tail. Kimi was maintaining a 4.5 second gap for a long time thinking it would be an easy swap. But as soon as Ferrari realized that, both position would be compromised as Bottas came in, Bingo... Kimi opened a big gap and by the time Bottas cleared Vettel, the gap was 8 seconds!!!

Bottas saved face for Ferrari.

This one's bold, even for you.

Guess what, I don't think I was alone in thinking that way. On both Sky and Channel 4, the commentators were of the same opinion that the swap would happen!

Ou Sky and Channel 4?? Ummm very strange, here on sky Germany they didn't talk about any possible swap.

[Juzh]

Well...well... well... The grand plan of Ferrari to swap the drivers came to a naught once Bottas was at Vettel's tail. Kimi was maintaining a 4.5 second gap for a long time thinking it would be an easy swap. But as soon as Ferrari realized that, both position would be compromised as Bottas came in, Bingo... Kimi opened a big gap and by the time Bottas cleared Vettel, the gap was 8 seconds!!!

Bottas saved face for Ferrari.

This one's bold, even for you.

Guess what, I don't think I was alone in thinking that way. On both Sky and Channel 4, the commentators were of the same opinion that the swap would happen!

Vettel had 6 laps of undercut, but after that the gap remained constant at ~4.5s for the next 16 laps until vettel hit trouble. I think any assumptions of ferrari switching drivers trough direct team orders were/are too far fetched at that stage and pretty much only UK broadcasters and hamilton fans would assume that was actually going to be the case.

Edit. They probably think so, because merc did this twice in bahrain this year.

[F1NAC]

Total domination by Hamilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e5ZWJ644cQ

Slow speed entry + copse better for Ferrari, but Mercedes so much better on acceleration, after that engines seems equal. (dont know DF levels of Mercedes, by M-B-C it seems they carried more DF). huh a lot of work to do for Ferrari

[Spoutnik]

Total domination by Hamilton
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7e5ZWJ644cQ

Slow speed entry + copse better for Ferrari, but Mercedes so much better on acceleration, after that engines seems equal. (dont know DF levels of Mercedes, by M-B-C it seems they carried more DF). huh a lot of work to do for Ferrari

So you agree there is no "high speed corner" issue for Ferrari ?
That's my point here is problem about braking stability for Ferrari it seems and furthermore since 5 fives years they have a problem with slow exit (traction) just look how poor the last part of the S3 is for the hard braking and the exit compared to Hamilton, or simply the first corner how Kimi lost time on the braking point.